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Old 22nd June 2012, 09:01 PM   #91
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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Originally Posted by mp9 View Post
Scott, i wasn't clear about the 80-120Hz reference, thinking you may have been referring to a low level box resonance region, hence coloration.
If i'm understanding this, the standard pencil's SPL efficiency will be closer to the drivers rated SPL due to the slightly greater gain over broader BW?
So due to the step-loss help, the standard Pencil will present a little more refined sound quality over the super, if correct that is what i'd prefer.
The MarKen12P also has my interest.
470mm in height or is that 470mm depth?
300 W 300 D 470H - nominal, depending on material thickness ( in my case 25mm baffle, 15mm for remainder)

edit:
I frankly can't remember if I saw Dave's drawings for other versions - the aspect ratio of these dimensions just resonated with me - as does the trapezoidal tapered shape - not really all that much more challenging to build than the standard rectangular "Kens" , except for the final angled cut on side panel

and I'm sure Scott rolls his eye and his "r's" when ever I type "finesse" or "refined", or otherwise wax rhapsodic and subjective on what I hear - oh well...
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Last edited by chrisb; 22nd June 2012 at 09:09 PM.
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Old 22nd June 2012, 09:11 PM   #92
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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Which version do you prefer?


I kinda doubt anyone's heard either with the new 12P, or certainly not compared them, so it's all conjecture at this point.
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Old 22nd June 2012, 09:18 PM   #93
zman01 is offline zman01  Bangladesh
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mp9,

Thanks for asking the tough questions.

In my expereince max LF extension doesn't always yield in the best sound. It can result in a dip in the 80-120 Hz region and make certain music sound thin and lacking punch. I am not saying/implying that this is the likely case with the Pensil 12P or Super Pensil 12P, but that has been my experience playing around with stuffing in TLs. Also most rooms add a gain at the bottom, but I suspect most rooms add nothing (or even have a suck-out) when it comes to 80-120 Hz.

- Zia
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Old 23rd June 2012, 07:20 AM   #94
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I suspect you're either thinking about an insufficiently controlled 3rd harmonic or floor-bounce.
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Old 23rd June 2012, 09:32 AM   #95
zman01 is offline zman01  Bangladesh
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I suspect you're either thinking about an insufficiently controlled 3rd harmonic or floor-bounce.
Scott,

You are right about the second one (floor bounce); first one will need some explaining for my understanding.

Thanks.
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Old 23rd June 2012, 10:29 AM   #96
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Simply that a poorly designed QW cabinet may not attenuate the harmonic modes of the pipe, resulting in a null in the frequency response at these points. In an untapered line these occur at odd multiples of the first mode / fundamental resonance, e.g. in a pipe with an Fo of 40Hz, F3 will be centred at 120Hz, F5 at 200Hz &c.
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Old 23rd June 2012, 12:27 PM   #97
zman01 is offline zman01  Bangladesh
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Thank you Scott for explaining!
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Old 23rd June 2012, 04:24 PM   #98
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Note that for a MLTL tuned to ~40Hz (probably appropriate for the A12P), the 3rd harmonic will produce a bump-up at ~120Hz. With a listening position 2-2.5m back, this is in the middle of the floor bounce suck-out. One problem tends to help another problem.

Bob
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Old 23rd June 2012, 04:40 PM   #99
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Er, good point. This is what happens when I try to post when proofing a chapter of my thesis. You know what I'm driving at though.
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Old 27th June 2012, 02:04 PM   #100
StevenZ is offline StevenZ  United States
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Well guys, today is the day that I start cutting the panels for my "standard" 12P Pensil. I've called around trying to source some 18mm Russian Birch but apparently my local suppliers are still running into moisture and delamination issues with their birch so I think I'm going to be forced to use MDF. I know it seems a bit taboo to use MDF with Mark's drivers but to be honest, I've built quite a few speakers using both Birch and MDF and the differences are minimal at most, and in some cases aren't easily discerned. What is you guys' take on this? Should I hold out for new inventory or just push on ahead? Have any of you actually built a Pensil with MDF and gotten good/bad results?


Thanks,
Steven
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