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Old 31st May 2012, 07:34 PM   #31
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I don't know about the Focals, but from what I've heard, the MBLs will not reproduce the FULL dynamics of an orchestra. I've heard them with the limitations of a CES set-up.

Last edited by silverhairbp; 31st May 2012 at 07:46 PM.
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Old 31st May 2012, 08:47 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverhairbp View Post
I don't know about the Focals, but from what I've heard, the MBLs will not reproduce the FULL dynamics of an orchestra. I've heard them with the limitations of a CES set-up.

for the cost of ownership of some of these silly high end systems (I've seen reports of systems / home rebuilds at well over $.5 Million - IMO that's so far beyond ridiculous that it's almost criminal, ) you could probably see live performances at real concert hall venues around the world for several years, and if your timing is right, catch some other sightseeing as well
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Old 31st May 2012, 09:20 PM   #33
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I think the CES set-up total system cost was much more than that. With electronics, probably in excess of $800kUS.

My posts are not intended to be critical of efforts to provide musical satisfaction, just to remind that we just won't reproduce a live orchestral performannce in our own homes unless we bring in a live orchestra (and have a REALLY BIG family room or other form of man cave).
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Old 31st May 2012, 10:13 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverhairbp View Post
Some of us attended a St. Louis Symphony concert recently. The program included some selections from Dvorak Slavonic Dances, Rhapsody in Blue, a dance suite from Bernstein (Leonard, not Elmer), Ravel's La Valse and some other material. Not only were there very wide dynamics in these performances, but the orchestra played really loud. Not The Who loud, but we were all surprised. And we were sitting a few rows from the top of Powell Hall (best seats for listening). We didn't measure SPLs, but they were well above our ability to talk to each other.

I say this to suggest that very few, if any, speakers (even large mega-bucks multi-driver systems) will actually reproduce the full dynamic range of an orchestra playing full-tilt without the risk of relatively high distortion and / or damage to the driver(s). Even using semi near-field listening (my personal preference) much of the tonal purity, instrumental timbre and fine detail are lost when trying to reproduce large scale orchestral performances with loud dynamic peaks.

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Hi Silver,
An interesting and excellent observation.
Cheers
Mark
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Old 31st May 2012, 10:25 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by silverhairbp View Post
to remind that we just won't reproduce a live orchestral performannce in our own homes unless we bring in a live orchestra
If not for the lack of dynamics that you describe, it would be for many other reasons.
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Old 1st June 2012, 01:28 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Bob Brines View Post
I am looking at a FAST speaker on steroids.

First, I personally, and most of my customers use an average listening level of 70-75dB, which is going to equate to ~80dB/w/m. While very little is the jazz/easy listening genre has anywhere near 15dB dynamic range, classical music can easily have a 30dB dynamic range. So, it's a matter of headroom.

Second, the bass produced by a large driver feels different from the bass produced by a small driver. I found this out in spades while playing with an 18" h-frame. Therefore, I chose a pair of 8" for the bass. This will provides an Sd of nearly a 12" driver but allows a cabinet width on less than 12". The two 8's will provide 105dB in room at 40Hz. That should be enough to start rearranging the furniture.

I would like to use the A7.3 rather than the A10.2 because it sounds better to me in the treble. Perhaps I need to rethink and go with the A10.2 as it is slightly more efficient and probably more robust.

Bob
Hi Bob,
Appreciate your need to deliver what customers want. Certainly peaks (output) from Alp 7's in the low 90's dB is fine, they'll do that on full-range in an optimised box. I'm just a bit nervous pushing a relatively small cone (Alp 7) constantly hard, although keeping it away from allot of low-end mechanical oscillation it should be fine. I should be done moving homes and offices in the next 2 weeks (hopefully).

I'll try to find time to run some tests and get back to you. Assuming 95dB is needed at what listening distance?

Thanks
Mark.

Last edited by markaudio; 1st June 2012 at 01:58 AM. Reason: correcting text
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Old 1st June 2012, 03:06 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by markaudio View Post
Hi Bob,
Appreciate your need to deliver what customers want. Certainly peaks (output) from Alp 7's in the low 90's dB is fine, they'll do that on full-range in an optimised box. I'm just a bit nervous pushing a relatively small cone (Alp 7) constantly hard, although keeping it away from allot of low-end mechanical oscillation it should be fine. I should be done moving homes and offices in the next 2 weeks (hopefully).

I'll try to find time to run some tests and get back to you. Assuming 95dB is needed at what listening distance?

Thanks
Mark.
Thanks for your interest here. Let's say 95dB at 1m. As was pointed out by others, what we are dealing with is orchestral crescendos. I don't anticipate selling to hard rockers -- that takes a different kind of speaker. I have had complains that my speakers choke on romantic symphonies, which is true. I am looking to make a speaker that does Baroque, jazz, Alison Kraus correctly and still have half a chance of doing Mahler.

Bob
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Old 1st June 2012, 03:15 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Bob Brines View Post
Thanks for your interest here. Let's say 95dB at 1m. As was pointed out by others, what we are dealing with is orchestral crescendos. I don't anticipate selling to hard rockers -- that takes a different kind of speaker. I have had complains that my speakers choke on romantic symphonies, which is true. I am looking to make a speaker that does Baroque, jazz, Alison Kraus correctly and still have half a chance of doing Mahler.

Bob
Ok Bob,
I'll try and get on to it by end of next week. Sorry can't be sooner, surrounded by packing boxes full of house-hold and office stuff at this time.
Cheers
Mark.
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Old 1st June 2012, 03:49 AM   #39
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I do. Partly why I have 10 or so different copies of Night on Bald Mountain and about as many of Pictures.

Rullknuf's comment on "dense" music made me think of Monk. That's the description one of my son's uses for Monk: "his music is dense".

I'll also echo the comments on not being able to reproduce the full orchestra. I have season tickets to the Fort Worth Symphony. Having heard Beethoven's Ninth several times with the full symphony, 130 person choir, and four soloists. Never get those dynamics in the home.

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Ah - the Great Gate of Kiev - maybe a pair of servo 15's isn't only just for "Transformers"


I remember reading a quote somewhere (talking about Night on Bald Mountain) that "Mussorgsky invented heavy metal"

who else recalls Disney's Fantasia in Cinemascope & stereo ( was it 3 channel? ) as a kid in the late 50s - talk about foreshadowing of the psychedelic 60s
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Last edited by fastbike1; 1st June 2012 at 03:57 AM.
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Old 1st June 2012, 01:36 PM   #40
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Fortunately (unfortunately -- your option), few recordings have anywhere near live concert dynamics. 30dB's is usually enough. I got a copy of the new Telarc 1812. A little disappointed. My A 7.2's/Goldwood 18's are up to the task with the quiet sections played at 60dB's.

Bob
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