Alpair 12P Gen. 2 (paper cone) - Page 22 - diyAudio
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Old 1st May 2013, 07:57 PM   #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murphythecat8 View Post
All I want to have is a f3 of maybe 60hz. Do you think that's achievable with a 10L box?
An 18 litre vented box will get you there. F3@61Hz and F10@47Hz approximately. A 10 litre box would result in an F3@80Hz approx.

jeff
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Old 1st May 2013, 09:46 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by vinylkid58 View Post
A 10 litre box would result in an F3@80Hz approx.
Jeff, F6 & F10? F3 tells you next to nothing.

dave
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Old 1st May 2013, 09:51 PM   #213
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65Hz and 52Hz respectively, that's with box tuned@55Hz.

jeff
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Old 1st May 2013, 10:41 PM   #214
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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Murphy: I certainly didn't intend to imply that you inferred (or is the other way around? ) anything derogatory about the 12Ps, and yes, frequent readers are quite aware that you've been less than enthralled with 4" paper coned drivers you've tried in the past.

Sorry if I can't recall, but have you mentioned the details of the big system against which these are /will be benchmarked?

What are the details on Scott's little BR for the 12P - I think Colin Topps built a pair. Knowing these two folks, it'd be my WAG that this would be about the minimum sized enclosures for the 12Ps.

I've not built every design penned (actually pixel-ed) by Dave, but provided it would be suitable for the 12P, the smallest one in which I'd envision this driver would be :

http://frugal-phile.com/boxlib/P10fr...map-200412.pdf


by my math this one's roughly 13-14 liters?

I did build the MarKen12T - but I doubt its dimensions 280mm W x 420mm H x 257mm D would fit your size requirements. Due to the trapezoid shape and 3 layers of side panels and internal bracing, I won't even try to estimate its effective cubic volume. Sounds very nice, until you compare it to the SuperPensils, whereupon you're amazed at where the bass came from.
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Old 1st May 2013, 11:22 PM   #215
TiMBoZ is offline TiMBoZ  Australia
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Default 12P Pencil vs Super Pencil

Quote:
SuperPensils, whereupon you're amazed at where the bass came from.
So the 12P SuperPencil is way to go...if poss, if space isn't an issue?

Has anyone ever compared, or a guestimate of the specifications/f3 etc. difference between Pencil vs Super Pencil?
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Old 1st May 2013, 11:53 PM   #216
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Originally Posted by chrisb View Post
http://frugal-phile.com/boxlib/P10fr...map-200412.pdf

by my math this one's roughly 13-14 liters?
Judging by the date, was that drawing originally for the A12, not the A12p? Funny, cause the tuning is "spot on" for the 12p @13 litres. BTW, I didn't check you math.

jeff
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Old 2nd May 2013, 12:21 AM   #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murphythecat8 View Post
lol
Mark: I already have in my possession the alpair 12p. bought them new, and to sell them at a redced price, likely what, 250$, is not worth it for mne since I paid 360$, with the tax and shipping and all that. POlus, I really want the cone to be paper, nothing else.
Hi Murphy,
Ohhhhhh......I see.......I didn't realise you already had these drivers, my apology.
Ummmmph........thing is I didn't design this driver for near-field or semi-near field. The design history for the Alp12 series has always been about giving system designers a "technical" unit meant for larger box and room applications. Indeed, the first Alp12 was the inspiration for the initial Pensil box design to suit this huge room in New Zealand:

Graham's hifi page

Scott and me worked together to produce a driver/box combination with purist potential for Graham who wanted a pure system for his new home. The Pensil 12 was born and the design was quickly taken up by many Diyers due to its build simplicity, purist looks and easy adjustment.

Since the early days and with the introduction of the 12P, others have designed smaller boxes, but none, I think, are down to 10 litres. I'd urge caution as the 12P has a huge exposed rear cone surface area. Its going to be a challenge to eliminate reflections hitting the rear of the cone in small box designs.

Not sure if your budget can stretch but the Alp10P will be out soon (details to follow on its thread). Its more likely this driver will better fit your needs, paper cone same as 12P.

I see advice is flowing so I'll say "thanks" to all members trying to help you.

Thx
Mark.

Last edited by markaudio; 2nd May 2013 at 12:48 AM.
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Old 2nd May 2013, 01:18 AM   #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinylkid58 View Post
Judging by the date, was that drawing originally for the A12, not the A12p?
It is.

A12.2p will fit in the box, tuning likely needs tweaking.

dave
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Old 2nd May 2013, 02:14 AM   #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
It is.

A12.2p will fit in the box, tuning likely needs tweaking.

dave
damn! I lost my post!
without repeating everything. I plan on doing your box dave, but thought it was indeed for the older a12. What are the adjustemnets to do to be able to use the 12p. What would be the low end response approximately? do you have measurments?
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Old 2nd May 2013, 03:06 AM   #220
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Here's a BR sim @13 liters using the vent dim's from Dave's drawing:

jeff
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