Alpair 12P Gen. 2 (paper cone) - Page 19 - diyAudio
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Old 22nd March 2013, 02:17 AM   #181
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I have the A7.3's in my HT with a Peerless sub. Wonderful sound. Best top of the three or four MA's I've had. I did a very nice MLTL for the A10.2 A true full-range speaker. For a number of unrelated reasons, my 2-channel has the Fostex FF165WK's right now. I had forgotten how smooth a paper driver sounds compared to metal. Which leads to my current project, which is a MLTL for the A12P. I should have the pair out of the shop, in raw plywood, but hey! I be listening to them this weekend. The drivers have maybe 30 hours on them now, so they should be sounding at least OK. They sure did wound boxy fresh out of the box!
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Old 22nd March 2013, 03:28 PM   #182
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Brines View Post
I have the A7.3's in my HT with a Peerless sub. Wonderful sound. Best top of the three or four MA's I've had. I did a very nice MLTL for the A10.2 A true full-range speaker. For a number of unrelated reasons, my 2-channel has the Fostex FF165WK's right now. I had forgotten how smooth a paper driver sounds compared to metal. Which leads to my current project, which is a MLTL for the A12P. I should have the pair out of the shop, in raw plywood, but hey! I be listening to them this weekend. The drivers have maybe 30 hours on them now, so they should be sounding at least OK. They sure did wound boxy fresh out of the box!

I've noted several times how well Bob's M10A10 works, and except for the elliptical supra-baffle, is as easy a build as the Pensils. I can see no reason that the A12P design wouldn't perform as well - and in the photo it certainly looks to be more "compact" than the SuperPs. Let's hope that the plans are eventually made available.


Someday some fool (oops, entrepreneur) with the time and money to spare will build every design extant for all these drivers, load them in a trailer and perform a traveling road show - I'd volunteer, but would like to have a home to come back to.

Until then, we'll need to decide which is "best" for our own situation based on a combination of anecdotal reporting and extrapolation of our direct experience - OK, maybe take a look at some of the measurements too.
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Old 22nd March 2013, 04:17 PM   #183
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Thanks everyone for the superb comments and suggestions. Bob I am interested in hearing about your design and the 12P's after they are broken in! It looks like a relatively compact footprint for a larger driver.
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Old 23rd March 2013, 04:12 PM   #184
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OK guys, I have the A12P MLTL's running on my 2-ch. They SOOOO blow away the FF165WK's, both top and bottom. They are still a bit boxy, but getting better. I think that that is a break-in issue.

Running at ~75dB @ 2m, Toe'd in 10*. Powered by my Topping TP60. Bottom is strong to at least 40Hz, usable well into the 30's. Very detailed. I am listening to a harp concerto at the moment. I can clearly hear fingernails on the strings. This is true detail, not that fake detail created by rising response. It you want to hear top end, play Pink Floyd's "Time".

I am a little puzzled as to how balanced they sound. The A12P has by far the roughest RTA plot of any of the Alpairs I have used.

Oh, well. These are going to Dallas for LSAF. You can here them there. BTW, Fred Thompson will be bringing a pair of A10.2's OB. You will want to here those also.

Bob
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Old 23rd March 2013, 08:43 PM   #185
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Ahhhh! Now I have to build all three; 7's 10's, and 12's!!!
Will look forward to your comparisons between all your MA drivers after you've broken in the 12's and have a good feel for them.
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Old 29th March 2013, 03:50 PM   #186
HPH is offline HPH  Viet Nam
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Hi all,
Anyone who test Alpair 12p with flee amp such as Tony 2a3 amp,...please advice?
Thanks
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Old 29th April 2013, 09:15 PM   #187
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okay, I think ill use the alpair 12p for my desktop system for my computer and tv and movies.
I will use a cheap hifidiy dac and class d amp.
I want a small enclosure, real small. like 5 L maximum. Is it possible? I dont need bass really. down to 70hz I'll be happy.
What are my options for small enclosure, anyone did one already?
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Old 29th April 2013, 10:12 PM   #188
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F10 won't even hit 70 sealed, and it is too small for vented.

dave
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Old 29th April 2013, 10:36 PM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murphythecat8 View Post
okay, I think ill use the alpair 12p for my desktop system for my computer and tv and movies.
I will use a cheap hifidiy dac and class d amp.
I want a small enclosure, real small. like 5 L maximum. Is it possible? I dont need bass really. down to 70hz I'll be happy.
What are my options for small enclosure, anyone did one already?
Hi Murphy,
Using such a large driver for near-field (desktop) is about the worst application I can think of. As Dave (Planet 10) said, 5 Litres if far too small a box volume. And you want to use "cheap" input equipment to feed a highly resonance sensitive driver? What's your technical reasoning for considering this approach?

While we're on the subject of suitability and performance, I read this comment from you on the full-range section of the forum:

"its really simple to understand, but this is, in no way, a argument to put the fullrange ahead of a good multi-way.
what about the sinewave that a fullrange CANNOT reproduce? the sub bass for example. Or the break up it need to do in order to make the highs. I'm sure that the sinewave is heavily affected by the break up modes. Also, what about the supposedly perfect sinewave reprodue with a fullrange when the cone excursion is ridiculous because the fullrange needs to reproduce all the bandwith."


I'm glad to see members debating driver performance issues but sad to read too many errors in knowledge and thinking from some who believe they know what they're talking about. Given that I make full-rangers, woofers and tweets, I'm likely to be the best place member to ask Exactly how drivers function and perform. There's no such thing as "really simple". The application of emittance from transducers is far more complex than you state. I recommend you search recent threads on the Markudio section of the forum, as driver performance has been discussed at much greater depth.

Thanks
Mark.

Last edited by markaudio; 29th April 2013 at 11:14 PM.
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Old 29th April 2013, 10:45 PM   #190
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
F10 won't even hit 70 sealed, and it is too small for vented.

dave

Not to mention the difficulties getting the drive to actually fit in a box of that volume - even after recessing for flush mounting, it'd be shoehorned in so tight that I'd imagine reflections back through the cone would be horrendous.

After all the work that Mark put into designing the 12P, it truly deserves a proper sized box - at the very minimum the little BR that I think Scott has described - but even better, any of several full sized MLTLs already mentioned.

As much as I love the A7, for a box that small and sealed, I'm thinking the MA driver to consider would be the CHR70.
Dave probably has the modeling for that handy, but I suspect the latter driver would work just as well in the bass department as the A7 in that size a sealed box.

My son has a pair (CHRs) in the little mMars-70 in a small bedroom system, powered by a Topping T-amp, and is quite happy with them. He's a bass player, so maybe his brain is wired to synthesize "missing" content more than his non musician father.
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