Alpair 12P Gen. 2 (paper cone) - Page 18 - diyAudio
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Old 18th July 2012, 03:00 AM   #171
mp9 is offline mp9  United States
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Originally Posted by Toppsy View Post
I managed to persuade Mark to sell me a pair of the first production run of the A12P's. These arrived Friday. One of only 2-pairs in the UK, I believe. The other pair with Scottmoose.

I must say they do look very nice indeed. They ooze quality. Mark and his team have produced a very fine driver here in the paper coned gen2. I do rather like the pale blue tone of the paper cone.

I've had them running for around 8-hrs today set on low volume and hooked up to my tubed CD player and 300B SET's, with CD set on repeat. The drivers are simply placed in the open boxes they were shipped in and leaned up against my fire surroundand. I have to say they do sound rather good indeed, even in the shipping boxes. They had my feet tapping to Tori Amos and the detail was quite something given the nature of the driver placings. The only down side is they need another 192-odd hrs of careful break-in before they reach their full potential.

Last I spoke to Scott he mentioned he had a new design for the A12P should I be interested. As if he needed to ask.

I believe this new driver has the potential to be very special indeed, especially if driven by a quality SET amp.
Just hooked my pair up in their packaging boxes to a Scott 222 tube amp/cd source. Playing Debussy La Mer, Nocturnes at a very low volume. I have to say they do sound nice.
Thinking i'll swap out the tube amp for a crappy old technics receiver tomorrow, i'm a little nervous about doing so but don't wan't to waste vintage tubes on break in.
Hope Scott's new design materializes soon:]
Old 4th March 2013, 06:19 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by markaudio View Post
I'll be doing more testing over the coming days which will include anechoic off-axis measurements.
I hope this hasn't fallen by the wayside. I am still interested.
Old 21st March 2013, 05:32 AM   #173
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Also would be interested in off axis response. Would it be crazy to use these in psudo near field (4 to 5 feet)?. Can't decide between 10.2 and 12p. Oh well, will just have to build both!
Old 21st March 2013, 04:52 PM   #174
mp9 is offline mp9  United States
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^ i'll guess a smaller driver would be best wrt off axis but you could do near field with 12P in the "moosebox"
Old 21st March 2013, 09:12 PM   #175
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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Originally Posted by mp9 View Post
^ i'll guess a smaller driver would be best wrt off axis but you could do near field with 12P in the "moosebox"

The 10.2 and 12P are quite different in tonality and presentation , which based on my experience with both in at least 2 different enclosure types each, is independent of the box. As near-field to me implies smaller room, of the drivers to which list I've just added an additional candidate, my suggestion would be the 7.3 - in either a mid sized stand mount, in which they'd be slightly compromised in terms of bass extension and weight, or the FH3, Pensil or other floorstander MLTL, in which they'd not be as much limited. Certainly the 10.2 and 12P both easily dig deeper than the 7.3s, but at the cost of increased enclosure dimensions.

Maybe Jeff could pipe in with some observations - he has both 12Ps in SuperPensils, as well as 7.3, and on temporary loan MAOP7s, as well as, IINM , some exposure to the 10.2
this retirement thing is harder than it looks for some folks
Old 21st March 2013, 10:57 PM   #176
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The 12p's aren't as bad "off axis" as you'd think given their size, but I'd agree the smaller drivers would probably measure better. For near-field listening, I'd just pick whatever flavor you like the most. The paper drivers have a slightly softer, more "laid back" sound compared to the metal drivers. If that's what you like, then the 12p is for you, just be aware that they will need bass support when mounted in a small BR enclosure. Don't discount the 6p for near-field (small room) listening either, they can be a bit of a surprise in a "miili" size box. Just don't expect to be rattling the windows.

Old 22nd March 2013, 12:11 AM   #177
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Default 12P enclosure options....

Thanks for the replies.
I have 6P's in Dave's milli size boxes. Really, really like them but I want a little more flesh and bass.
I listen in a BIG Room and I anticipate setting a floor standing or stand mounted design BEHIND my desk area. (Pict Attached) Listening distance will be about 4 to 5 feet from drivers, so only kind of near field. Speakers will be out a good distance from the back wall too, so not sure how much bass there will be regardless.
I like the 6P's so much I want to try a couple of other MA drivers. I also have access to a CNC so may just knock out a few cabinets in plain birch ply.
Currently using a 1 watt mini watt / appj amp. Waiting for a chasis to arrive and will be building another SE EL84 design (RH84), so will only be at 3 watts.
Alpair 7 would probably be my first choice too, but I'm not sure 3 watts will be enough? Anybody get away running alpair 7's with a couple of watts?

The Greg Monfort MLTL for 10.2 is the perfect box proportion I’m looking for so will build those for sure.
Also thinking I will build Jim Griffin’s mltl for the 6’s for a slim floor stander with a little more bass than the milli boxes they are currently in.
The 12P seems to be getting so much good feedback, and with 8ohms and 92db, a 3 watt amp and a large room, I think I should give them a try too. Don’t want a huge box like the super pencils however.

Will subscribe soon to Planet 10’s Plan set, so maybe he has a smaller floor standing design for the 12P.
Not ready for fast. Want to see how much I can get out of a single driver first.
Any other 12P enclosure suggestions?

Thx, Jason
Old 22nd March 2013, 12:13 AM   #178
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Default 10.2 / 12P differences

The 10.2 and 12P are quite different in tonality and presentation
Chris, would you mind elaborating more on what differences you hear?
Old 22nd March 2013, 01:55 AM   #179
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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Originally Posted by NewMountain View Post
Chris, would you mind elaborating more on what differences you hear?

some random thoughts

I think Jeff has probably covered most of what I would have said. I'd describe the 10.2 as more analytical, and certainly more extended in the LF range in similar sized enclosures compared to the 12P, but lacks somewhat the paper's warm intimacy, gradations of textural details on acoustic instruments and voice, and dimensionality of soundstage.

Even though the 10.2 can dig deeper in smaller boxes than the 12P, if WAF wasn't an issue (look, an aerial porcine fleet) between these two, I'd probably chose the paper. Jeff's in SuperPensils sound quite stunning.

I know that Colin Topps has built at least one pair of a smaller BR for the 12P, maybe he could join in on its performance vis a vis the 10.2 in boxes that for the latter are much smaller than the SuperP .

I've not actually heard the 10.2 in Pensils, but another full sized MLTL in which I have heard them work quite well is Brines' M10A10, and of course Planet10 mid sized MarKen stand mounted. There are simply too many competent enclosure designs and not enough resources of time and funds to try them all.

IINM, more than a couple of folks are running 7.3 on small SET amps - they're quite delicious with Bottlehead Paramours in a small room ( well what FR doesn't scrumptious on 2A3s?)- but your room might be large enough to swallow that up. Now give them about 5-7 W of EL34 etc triode, 10-12W of EL84 pentode and they are quite stunning.

FWIW, the 7.3 is my favorite of current Mark Audio Metal drivers, but it's the papers that enchant me the most - I'm hoping for that as an option the new Alpair8

The RH84 is a great design - with comparable quality iron and tube sets, I don't think it would embarrass itself compared to a Decware Zen

As for what any of the modeling or real-world measurements would show for any of these drivers or enclosure designs, that's of less interest to me than for other folks - for which I make no apologies.

BTW - nice workstation
this retirement thing is harder than it looks for some folks
Old 22nd March 2013, 02:17 AM   #180
zman01 is offline zman01  Bangladesh
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Previous posters have mentioned Scott's small BR box for the Alpair 12P - it performs pretty well for a relatively compact enclosure. The box is tuned to 55 Hz and has decent LF with room gain - however bigger enclosures will yield more bass. As Chris and Jeff have mentioned, the A12P has a more laid back and warmer sound vs the metals. IIRC the paper is the same type as used in the Alpair 6P. The A12P compact BR box box is simple design and is easy to put together - you might as well give it a shot, specially since you have access to a CNC.

I haven't heard the MA 10.2, but the Alpair 7.3 are mighty fine drivers too.

Last edited by zman01; 22nd March 2013 at 02:19 AM.

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