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Old 2nd April 2012, 07:01 PM   #1
fakeout is offline fakeout  Canada
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Since I read Mark Audio takes feedback from posters here I want to add my own comment. NOTE: You can certainly add your own comment in here, I won't view it as off-topic or hijacking (since I always hijack everyone's threads anyway with my random questions).

Anyway, I wanted to say I'd like to see a 4 inch driver (not 4.5 inches) that is shielded, can use a 5 or 6 litre vented cabinet and is not made of a material that cannot be exposed to the sun and has mounting holes that line up with 92mm Nexus computer fan grilles. It could be used for music and movies. And other than metal, the cone could be made with kevlar, fiber glass, plastic.

I know this day and age people are going to say: "...but, CRTs practically don't exist anymore". I read shielded drivers for whatever reason has smoother sound (or something to that effect, can't remember exactly).

I'd also like to see some other colors like yellow cone with black dust cap or white cone with black dust cap. (I saw some JVC boomboxes in the 1980's that looked cool though with plastic blue-gray drivers. I thought those were awesome.)

And also a driver that doesn't need a notch filter etc. but doesn't have to beat a Jordan.

I'd also like to see a 5 or 6 litre cabinet design like the one (I'm going to try to put in an attachment).
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File Type: gif VarKalEl-3Dx.gif (67.0 KB, 274 views)

Last edited by fakeout; 2nd April 2012 at 07:10 PM.
 
Old 2nd April 2012, 07:34 PM   #2
zman01 is offline zman01  Bangladesh
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Fakeout,

Mark Audio made that driver already

Does this fit the bill?

Creative Sound - Product Details

A small cabinet:

http://homepage.mac.com/tlinespeaker...map-231009.pdf

Some large computer grilles:

http://www.amazon.com/APEVIA-G-140MM.../dp/B0043SIX4A

Last edited by zman01; 2nd April 2012 at 07:42 PM.
 
Old 2nd April 2012, 07:48 PM   #3
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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Mark may reply directly as well, but a few thoughts:

It's not likely that Mark will depart from the cone or basket/frame materials / colors he's now using - for a lot of reasons, cost efficiencies not primary but certainly among them.

Not all drivers with stacked magnets / covers are shielded to the same degree- for example the EL70 vs now discontinued Fostex FE127E. I have "dead" examples of each that I use for templating purposes, and the Fostex has is much lower radiated flux compared to the EL70 - no CRT to measure intensity of affect, but a simple test with steel screw driver bit is all that it takes. That said, the EL70 is definitely smoother in the upper midrange than the Fostex, which in its untreated form still exhibits response in that area that some folks find fatiguing.

Once again the question of "exposure to sun" is raised - is it heat or light that is the concern? I'm just guessing that the chemical/physical properties of affordable materials with suitable acoustic performance characteristics may be in conflict with ultimate UV/ IR durability.

That said, except for marine rated drivers, speakers used in car audio systems are subject to some of the harshest swings of operating conditions you're likely to find, and I've had systems last longer than 10yrs. Of course many of them are not designed to flourish in small sealed or vented enclosures - there may be a more technically accurate term, but a door or rear window ledge backing into trunk is much closer to a "leaky IB"


edit: to echo Zia's comment, the EL70 is a helluva decent driver* and definitely works in enclosures as small as that in the link -(note the date on drawing - this ain't our first rodeo) if you don't want black cones, the CHP70 is a close relative, but lacks the EL70's top end


*I think of it as close to what a paper Alpair7 might be, at roughly half the price
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Last edited by chrisb; 2nd April 2012 at 07:55 PM.
 
Old 3rd April 2012, 08:57 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fakeout View Post
Since I read Mark Audio takes feedback from posters here I want to add my own comment. NOTE: You can certainly add your own comment in here, I won't view it as off-topic or hijacking (since I always hijack everyone's threads anyway with my random questions).

Anyway, I wanted to say I'd like to see a 4 inch driver (not 4.5 inches) that is shielded, can use a 5 or 6 litre vented cabinet and is not made of a material that cannot be exposed to the sun and has mounting holes that line up with 92mm Nexus computer fan grilles. It could be used for music and movies. And other than metal, the cone could be made with kevlar, fiber glass, plastic.

I know this day and age people are going to say: "...but, CRTs practically don't exist anymore". I read shielded drivers for whatever reason has smoother sound (or something to that effect, can't remember exactly).

I'd also like to see some other colors like yellow cone with black dust cap or white cone with black dust cap. (I saw some JVC boomboxes in the 1980's that looked cool though with plastic blue-gray drivers. I thought those were awesome.)

And also a driver that doesn't need a notch filter etc. but doesn't have to beat a Jordan.

I'd also like to see a 5 or 6 litre cabinet design like the one (I'm going to try to put in an attachment).
Hello Fakeout and Guys,
Apologies for mt lack of posts recently. I'm uber busy making drivers for N. America and Germany (EU). Also I'm in the final pre-production stages of MAOP and Alpair 12P (more about these later).

Briefly, taking Fake's points together, I could build a driver such he suggests. Using fibre-glass or kevlar cone material could increase robustness. I could also fit bigger coil to enhance power-handling. Fitting a rear metal cover is in itself Not going to necessarily "improve smoothness". Designing driver characteristics is allot more complex, but I can see the general thinking. However, making a driver of this type takes me further away from the "High Fidelity" approach for Markaudio. Kevlar, Fibre-glass or Polypropylene (PP) are effectively "dead" materials in terms of resonance capability. Adding the larger coil to a relatively small cone area invites audible distortion under higher loads.

The question is one of quantity versus quality.

Cheers
Mark.
 
Old 4th April 2012, 04:15 PM   #5
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markaudio View Post
... Also I'm in the final pre-production stages of MAOP and Alpair 12P (more about these later).



Cheers
Mark.

you tease -
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Old 7th April 2012, 12:02 AM   #6
fakeout is offline fakeout  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markaudio View Post
Hello Fakeout and Guys,
Apologies for mt lack of posts recently. I'm uber busy making drivers for N. America and Germany (EU). Also I'm in the final pre-production stages of MAOP and Alpair 12P (more about these later).

Briefly, taking Fake's points together, I could build a driver such he suggests. Using fibre-glass or kevlar cone material could increase robustness. I could also fit bigger coil to enhance power-handling. Fitting a rear metal cover is in itself Not going to necessarily "improve smoothness". Designing driver characteristics is allot more complex, but I can see the general thinking. However, making a driver of this type takes me further away from the "High Fidelity" approach for Markaudio. Kevlar, Fibre-glass or Polypropylene (PP) are effectively "dead" materials in terms of resonance capability. Adding the larger coil to a relatively small cone area invites audible distortion under higher loads.

The question is one of quantity versus quality.

Cheers
Mark.
Are you implying only paper or metal cones are worth it? How about bamboo paper cones? I read bamboo paper cone sare like in between paper and metal in terms of the sound they make (if that makes any sense to you).

Last edited by markaudio; 7th April 2012 at 04:07 PM.
 
Old 7th April 2012, 05:42 AM   #7
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fakeout View Post
Are you implying only paper or metal cones are worth it? How about bamboo paper cones? I read bamboo paper cones from Tang Band are like in between paper and metal in terms of the sound they make (if that makes any sense to you).

No, I think Mark is saying that after many more years of actually building drivers than most forum posters - and all the materials engineering and production process design involved therein - he's arrived at informed decisions as to where to invest his limited resources of time and treasure.


The category of material from which a speaker's emitting surface is comprised is only one variable in a complex formula that contributes to the quality of sound reproduced.
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Old 7th April 2012, 06:37 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fakeout View Post
I read bamboo paper cones are like in between paper and metal in terms of the sound they make (if that makes any sense to you).
No it doesn't make sense.

For instance Mark's multiformed cones don't sound like stereotypical metal cones -- it is not what the cone is made of, it is how you use it.

And bamboo paper -- isn't that just another paper? There are literally millions of receipes for paper with a very wide range of characteristics.

You are trying to pigeon hole stuff that can't be.

dave
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Last edited by markaudio; 7th April 2012 at 04:08 PM.
 
Old 7th April 2012, 04:02 PM   #9
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Hi Fakeout,
I don't allow links to competitor makers on the Markaudio commercial section of the forum. Its a clear commercial conflict.

I'm not sure why you assume that the materials you quoted in your earlier posts have the capacity to emit full range (to 20-kHz). The mass and structure of Kevlar, fibre-glass weave and similar have strengths best suited to high-power woofers or limited range drivers (mids). These materials have mass and structure thats too heavy and/or resistive to carry resonance patterns sufficient to generate wide-band or full range emittance.

Naturally, makers will experiment with various materials but to date, if the driver designer's goal is to produce a "Full Range" emitter, then currently his/her choice for cone material is more than likely wood/paper or an alloy family material.

Dave's point about the design of the driver's key components applies. Chris's point regarding the relative complexity of also applies. I'm not sure why you assume that designing a driver is such a simple matter (I wish it were).

Cheers
Mark.

Last edited by markaudio; 7th April 2012 at 09:41 PM.
 
Old 7th April 2012, 10:04 PM   #10
fakeout is offline fakeout  Canada
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M'kay. But, you're the ones who were assuming that I'm the one assuming it's that simple. I quoted two different people in my last message that was deleted so I could make my point where my comments come from. And since that message vanished, it's obviously more difficult to illustrate what I meant.

Since it's a moot point now because no one seems to want to address it directly, it was that two different people were saying bamboo paper had properties they liked. But, whatever...
 

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