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Old 4th January 2012, 09:16 PM   #21
ODougbo is offline ODougbo  United States
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The mortile has bailed me out more than once.....one little box goes a long way. I found it at HD the other day, brown and gray.

Addicted....oh way before I found this fine website 5, 6 months ago, now I think I'm in the Twilight Zone.

Last edited by ODougbo; 4th January 2012 at 09:19 PM.
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Old 4th January 2012, 09:20 PM   #22
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I have been listening to Alpair 10's daily for quite some time, they sound great! I was just responding to the thread question! Right wrong or indifferent this issue is NOT preventing my enjoyment of the product! I'm sure I will continue to purchase and enjoy Mark's products regardless of what they are made of or with!

Larry
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Old 4th January 2012, 09:29 PM   #23
badman is offline badman  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larryldspkr View Post
I have been listening to Alpair 10's daily for quite some time, they sound great! I was just responding to the thread question! Right wrong or indifferent this issue is NOT preventing my enjoyment of the product! I'm sure I will continue to purchase and enjoy Mark's products regardless of what they are made of or with!

Larry
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Old 5th January 2012, 12:35 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badman View Post
Features sell. It's listed as a high point on sales sheets to have a cast frame, and people take that and run with it to mean that it's key to the sonic performance. A proper basket a la Markaudio is great, but many just have bought into the marketing as the only truth. Even stamped steel frames can be very good, check out the very cool frame design on the CSS trio 12 for the "right way" to do a steel frame.

http://www.creativesound.ca/pdf/CSS-...ata-051009.pdf
Hi Guys,
For my part, the use of polymers in frame design/making is strictly a design issue based on engineering research. Low mass drivers present more design challenges, one being isolation between the power-train and its mounting frame. The last thing a low mass driver needs is a resonating frame (ringing) transmitting specific frequencies back to its power train. Of the 32 steel and cast frames I've measured to date, all emit a prime resonance between 800Hz to 3-kHz depending of size and design. 22 of them emitted secondary resonances. By contrast, the resonant characteristics of polymer frames are much better damped.

I am in the very early design stages of a CNC'd alloy frame design. Its main criteria will be the ability to disassemble to allow the swop-out of power-trains. However, using alloys presents me with a greater design challenge in the control of resonance.

The Trio 12 driver comparative reference is mis-leading. Its a large woofer with a massive moving mass of 181g. Its essentially an air piston primarily capable of mechanical LF oscillation. Its cone's ability to micro-resonate is pretty much nil. All its designer has to do is make the frame strong enough to take the Max working load. Any resonance emitted from its frame is unlikely to affect its bulky power-train.

Chris B's point referring to "second guessing" issues has some significance. For some parts of Europe and N. America, respect for the engineering and the design-engineering professions is much in decline. Over here in Asia, its the other way around. It partly illustrates the West's depressing economic situation. The UK (my old country) is a case in point. Schools of design and engineering have shrunk over the last 30 years. In 1974, 26% of the working population were employed in manufacturing. By year 2002, the percentage working in manufacturing dropped to only 6%. The ability of the UK to earn a living now relies of the money men in London's square mile, no wonder its economy is in trouble.

Summarising, I'll continue to design and make Markaudio drivers on with the priority on research, testing and feedback from genuine Diyaudio members. Markaudio drivers will retain their "engineered" philosophy, even the cheap entry-level drivers will get my attention.

Cheers
Mark.

Last edited by markaudio; 5th January 2012 at 12:43 AM.
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Old 5th January 2012, 01:55 AM   #25
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Mark,

Outstanding response. Sometimes I think that we in the west were brainwashed into thinking that engineering was uncool because of the staggering development that could have potentially empowered mankind to an uncontrollable state. Thankfully, we still get to use markaudio drivers. Probably because we can't build flying saucers out of them.

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Old 5th January 2012, 02:00 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by chrisb View Post
we buy this stuff by the 1lb block
The last purchase was actually 10 5 lb bricks.

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Old 5th January 2012, 02:48 AM   #27
18Hurts is offline 18Hurts  United States
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All depends on what it is used for I guess.

Would I buy a plastic framed full range? Sure...but not an 18" PA woofer. As long as weight is not extreme, plastic is fine. On my stamped steel framed drivers, I throw the plumber's putty on it to damp any ringing and it works well.

If it was a PA speaker, I would refuse to buy it if it contained plastic framed drivers for the obvious reason that it will get knocked around. I sheered off a magnet on a stamped steel frame once as it fell 8 feet to a tile floor.

Would a MA driver survive a fall from ceiling level to a tile floor? Could it withstand the heat/cold cycles and road shock when mounted in car doors? Probably not--but it is not designed to.

It would be nice to have a cast aluminum ring that would snap into the plastic frame for mounting though... for pure clamping/anti-warping and cosmetic reasons. It might be a good option for the Alpair series...
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Old 5th January 2012, 02:58 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by 18Hurts View Post
I sheered off a magnet on a stamped steel frame once as it fell 8 feet to a tile floor.
I lost the magnet on a number of cast frame pro-drivers from a lot less impact than that (mounted in the boxes).

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Old 5th January 2012, 03:41 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by 18Hurts View Post
All depends on what it is used for I guess.

Would I buy a plastic framed full range? Sure...but not an 18" PA woofer. As long as weight is not extreme, plastic is fine. On my stamped steel framed drivers, I throw the plumber's putty on it to damp any ringing and it works well.

If it was a PA speaker, I would refuse to buy it if it contained plastic framed drivers for the obvious reason that it will get knocked around. I sheered off a magnet on a stamped steel frame once as it fell 8 feet to a tile floor.

Would a MA driver survive a fall from ceiling level to a tile floor? Could it withstand the heat/cold cycles and road shock when mounted in car doors? Probably not--but it is not designed to.

It would be nice to have a cast aluminum ring that would snap into the plastic frame for mounting though... for pure clamping/anti-warping and cosmetic reasons. It might be a good option for the Alpair series...
I think the idea of using a metal ring for mouting is great ,that way we can still retain the anti resonant nature of plastic frame while improving on durability
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Old 5th January 2012, 05:46 AM   #30
zman01 is offline zman01  Bangladesh
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Originally Posted by quanghuytang90 View Post
I think the idea of using a metal ring for mouting is great ,that way we can still retain the anti resonant nature of plastic frame while improving on durability
quanghuytang90,

Mark's polymer frames are durable. Have you tried out any of his drivers? Mark's design of the frame is obviosuly well engineered through his rigorous R&D, and the fit, finish, and construction are top notch too. And the biggest Alp is a 6.5" driver, so still a long way from the 18" woofers that 18Hurts refers too in his post.

Last edited by zman01; 5th January 2012 at 05:51 AM.
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