Alpair's aren't woofers

[zman01]

Originally Posted by markaudio

Hi Zia,
Will check with Derek. Will be part of a listening lest this Friday with Derek and his new amp at Norio san's studio.

Cheers
Mark.

Nice - and do let us in on some listening impressions on a separate thread!

[Bob Brines]

Originally Posted by JC Fardo

Excuse me to keep on off topic

Is that amp you mean?

TOPPING TP60 90W Class T AMP AMPLIFIER Tripath TA2022 | eBay

Thanks

JC

Yes, that's the amp. Tripath (or knock-off) TA2022 27w/ch@8Ω.

Bob

[nicoch58]

I see on old bose acustimass a small lamp....

[Resetter]

Just as a guide mark, I currently run a Primare I21 (2x 75watt) would that be to much for a set of Alpair 7 gen3`s in a frugel horn?

Then again when it turns on the volume dial is set on 10 (and it goes from 0 to 79) and thats usually more then enough on the current speakers i have.

[markaudio]

Originally Posted by Resetter

Just as a guide mark, I currently run a Primare I21 (2x 75watt) would that be to much for a set of Alpair 7 gen3`s in a frugel horn?

Then again when it turns on the volume dial is set on 10 (and it goes from 0 to 79) and thats usually more then enough on the current speakers i have.

Hi Resetter (Guys),
I did a web search on the Primare 121 and found this review:

http://www.avreview.co.uk/news/article/mps/uan/777

Quoting the review:
The I21 delivered the most expansive and relaxed sound of the group which meant that it could be listened to for longer and louder than the others. On the other hand, some will find it a little on the diffuse side, it lacks precision in both imaging and timing terms and those after a tight sound should look elsewhere. We enjoyed the fact that it could spread the sound wider than the speakers and do so in an effusive yet engaging fashion. There is a touch of exaggerated openness but this space allows notes to form a fuller image. The least hi-fi sounding but easiest amp to listen to in the bunch, this attractive Swede deserves your attention.


I'm always a bit weary of reviews like this one as some of the comment is technically meaningless. For example, amps can't "spread sound wider than the speaker". However, it may help Diyers focus on finding a amp that suits drivers and their listening tastes.

Part of the general guidelines for the acoustic matching of amps to drivers is:

1 - Use lower-output softer warm sounding amps with low-mass drivers. The low mass drivers power-train will emit more micro-resonance. A less "lively" amp will help balance the system.

2 - High mass drivers usually mate best with higher power tight and sharp response amps. The amp's output in needed to help overcome the mechanical inertia of the emitters material mass (cone).

I've not heard the 75 watt (@ 8 Ohm) Primare 121 but it looks like a good candidate for the Alp 7 Gen.3's, also Alp 10's and Alp12's. I'd suggest trying 2 0hm non-inductive good quality audio resistors in series to the driver's + feed, making an 8 Ohm load. Another point to note is several reviews refer to the Primare having a lively high range output. Given the Alp7 Gen. 3's extend to 30-kHz, you might want to consider adding a good quality small inductor (0.1 to 0.2mH) in series to the + feed of the driver, if you find the top a bit too lively. But this is purely a matter of personal listening taste, so this suggestion is more experimental. For example:

http://www.erseaudio.com/Products/Fo...auge/EAF16-120

The main thing is amps of this size and output (class A/B) are usually good candidates for medium to larger size Full-range drivers, being less likely to cause over-load situations, while big enough to avoid clipping issues. Restraint with the Primare's volume control is still needed as your speaker system (horn) will likely be very efficient.

Cheers
Mark.

[Resetter]

Thanks for the info there, I thought the speakers where 8 ohms but i now i see its 6ohms, any preferred type/brand of resistor (and wattage) you can recommend?

I sort of fell in love with the Primare amp when I had a little listening session at the hifi dealer here, tried some NAD amps but all of it was flat to my ears and it didn`t really sound, well it had no emotion. I couldn`t feel the music so to say.

When the seller hooked up the primare i was sceptical, only a volume button to treble or bass adjustment, but the system is built dual mono.

And when we gave the cd another spin i was flabbergasted, it didn`t need any treble or bass controll the entire range just sounded great and staging was awesome, a clear seperation from left and right that realy makes the singer sound like its right in front of you.

Tested these out of a pair of Dali Ikon 6 at the shop.

[markaudio]

Originally Posted by Resetter

Thanks for the info there, I thought the speakers where 8 ohms but i now i see its 6ohms, any preferred type/brand of resistor (and wattage) you can recommend?

Hi Resetter, guys,
Depending on your budget, go for 10 watt to 20 watt resistors. That's plenty for most Full-range uses. Resistors like these:

Madisound: Resistors for Speakers

1.0 ohm Mundorf M-Resist Supreme Resistors 20 watt | TokoSpeaker, Toko Speaker, Car Audio, Audio Mobil, Speaker, Tweeter, Midrange, Subwoofer, Capacitor, Resistor, Inductor, Audio

Cheers
Mark.

[stochastic]

Out of curiosity, if a pair of alpair 10's do have cone distortion inflicted upon them from excessive volume, what is the auditory result afterward? I.e. will it be noticed primarily in the hi-freq range, or will the drivers just start to fall apart faster, or... ?

[natural sound]

Originally Posted by markaudio

Hi Silver,
For experienced Diyer's using larger amps is less of an issue, but most of the problems arise with Full-range users who aren't so familiar with these drivers needs.

90% of driver damage incidents reported to me over the years involves bigger amps. Its a potential lethal situation for the driver unless the user is ubber careful with the volume control

You'd have to go someway to clip an amp on a full range driver like Alp10's, really be closer to flee amp power to run the risk of clipping.

So no, big amps remain a major factor in full-range driver failure.

Of all the Full-range makers, I think I'm the only one who's supplying advice and help direct to end users on an almost daily basis. I'm also listening and taking note of feedback from Diyers and most anyone with an genuine interest in this hobby.

Thx

Mark.

I agree you do help the diyers and you try to explain the issue at hand. As for fostex they don't retrun questions from e-mails. So again thanks mark for all you do. Jm

[southernoise]

I was playing Dadawa's Sister Drum on my Pensil 10.2 thro a myref chip amp/Pass B1 buffer. At some parts when the massive drums came in the Alpairs were moving like its going to pop out of the frame. All these at moderate volumes.