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Old 11th March 2011, 07:58 PM   #101
AEIOU is offline AEIOU  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottmoose View Post
Yes, I'm perfectly aware of what it was for; and given that it follows the Fletcher-Munson / Equal loudness curves rather well, it also makes for a logical scientific definition of what constitutes the critical hearing BW (nee 'midband'). The point is, avoiding an XO within ~an octave either side of this region is desireable if at all possible & if a compromise needs to be made, you're generally better off doing so on the bottom end; for e.g. shifting to 500Hz to improve powerhandling (based on the power distribution of typical large orchestral pieces, rock music &c.)
I can't keep track of what everyone knows.

Fletcher-Munson is not Robinson-Dadson.
http://www.sengpielaudio.com/Fletche...son-Dadson.pdf
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Old 11th March 2011, 09:08 PM   #102
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Hi Guys,
Maybe its just regular exposure of listening to full-range drivers, but those times when I listen to multi-way systems, to my ears the music appears to be cut into chunks. The mid-highs sounds disconnected from the lower forms of the music.

I'm not knocking multi-way. Indeed I worked quite hard on Woof No.6 and Tweet N0.3 to help "smooth" such phase issues. But I've become used to listening to extended full-range drives where phase differential is pretty much a non-issue, that the music sound more real to me, as though I'm at the concert. I'm I going crazy?

Cheers

Mark.

Last edited by markaudio; 11th March 2011 at 09:09 PM. Reason: additional
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Old 11th March 2011, 09:19 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markaudio View Post
Hi Guys,
Maybe its just regular exposure of listening to full-range drivers, but those times when I listen to multi-way systems, to my ears the music appears to be cut into chunks. The mid-highs sounds disconnected from the lower forms of the music.

I'm not knocking multi-way. Indeed I worked quite hard on Woof No.6 and Tweet N0.3 to help "smooth" such phase issues. But I've become used to listening to extended full-range drives where phase differential is pretty much a non-issue, that the music sound more real to me, as though I'm at the concert. Am I going crazy?

Cheers

Mark.
Yes, you are one "Wild and Crazy Guy."
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Old 11th March 2011, 09:43 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AEIOU View Post
I can't keep track of what everyone knows.
In that case, perhaps you could in future remember that some of us do actually know what we're talking about. Thanks awfully.

Quote:
Fletcher-Munson is not Robinson-Dadson.
http://www.sengpielaudio.com/Fletche...son-Dadson.pdf
Sigh. I assume you failed to observe the '/' in my post, signifiying, as is generally appreciated, 'either / or.' And the use of the plural when refering to 'curves' rather than the singular. I am perfectly aware that the R-D equal-loudness contours are not precisely the same as the earlier Fletcher-Munson. Both however, are close enough for the purpose of illustrating Mark's (and my) general point.

Last edited by Scottmoose; 11th March 2011 at 10:06 PM.
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Old 11th March 2011, 10:48 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottmoose View Post
In that case, perhaps you could in future remember that some of us do actually know what we're talking about. Thanks awfully.
Some of us includes me.
You're welcome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottmoose View Post
Sigh. I assume you failed to observe the '/' in my post, signifiying, as is generally appreciated, 'either / or.' And the use of the plural when refering to 'curves' rather than the singular. I am perfectly aware that the R-D equal-loudness contours are not precisely the same as the earlier Fletcher-Munson. Both however, are close enough for the purpose of illustrating Mark's (and my) general point.
I frequently/often use a VIRGULE in my own posts/replies also/too.

Actually neither one of the two is correct. There is an even newer ISO standard, but I'm sure you already knew/know.

Anyway, I still don't understand why we are talking about crossovers in this thread. Maybe you could explain that one to me.
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Old 11th March 2011, 10:51 PM   #106
Ian444 is offline Ian444  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markaudio View Post
But I've become used to listening to extended full-range drives where phase differential is pretty much a non-issue, that the music sound more real to me, as though I'm at the concert. I'm I going crazy?
Not at all If you are going crazy then we're all going crazy together

Since I bought the CHR-70 and fitted them to the Lotus cabinets designed by Scottmoose above, I have never looked back. I would need to spend thousand/s on source before I needed better speakers. Thank you both (and others) for excellent contributions for DIYers. Mark I hope your Gen 3 drivers don't stray too far from the originals since the Gen 1/2 designs were right on the money.
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Old 11th March 2011, 10:53 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian444 View Post
Not at all If you are going crazy then we're all going crazy together

Since I bought the CHR-70 and fitted them to the Lotus cabinets designed by Scottmoose above, I have never looked back. I would need to spend thousand/s on source before I needed better speakers. Thank you both (and others) for excellent contributions for DIYers. Mark I hope your Gen 3 drivers don't stray too far from the originals since the Gen 1/2 designs were right on the money.
Any pictures?
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Old 12th March 2011, 04:30 AM   #108
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Quote:
Actually neither one of the two is correct. There is an even newer ISO standard, but I'm sure you already knew/know.
None of them are 100%, but as noted, they are all are perfectly adequate for illustrating Mark's (and my) point regarding the avoidance of XOs in (or preferably within an octave either side of) the critical hearing BW. Which is the, er, point.

Quote:
Anyway, I still don't understand why we are talking about crossovers in this thread. Maybe you could explain that one to me.
Presumably because some people wish to use these drive units in various forms of multi-way setups.

Last edited by Scottmoose; 12th March 2011 at 04:35 AM.
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Old 12th March 2011, 05:08 AM   #109
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Mark will you be targeting similar SPL w/ the 8 ohm as the 4 or aiming higher?
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Old 12th March 2011, 09:43 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian444 View Post
Not at all If you are going crazy then we're all going crazy together

Since I bought the CHR-70 and fitted them to the Lotus cabinets designed by Scottmoose above, I have never looked back. I would need to spend thousand/s on source before I needed better speakers. Thank you both (and others) for excellent contributions for DIYers. Mark I hope your Gen 3 drivers don't stray too far from the originals since the Gen 1/2 designs were right on the money.
Hi Ian,
Thanks for your kind words.
No worries, the CHR Gen. 3's are more about "evolution" rather than "revolution". So the changes aren't radical. The things I hadn't anticipated was the interest for an 8 ohm coil. So we'll be busy in the next 10 days experimenting. I'll keep everybody informed.

Cheers

Mark.
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