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Old 2nd March 2011, 06:45 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ra7 View Post
Originally Posted by Scottmoose
You seem to be ignoring the fact that Mark has stated that his drive units require breaking in with a varying signal, not (like pink noise) a constant one. SPL will therefore vary dependant on said material & its dynamic range. As I understand it, the object is not to exceed the stated levels, rather than maintaining these deflection levels for a couple of hundred hours.
I think there's a danger of trying to be too clever here. You shouldn't need to be messing around establishing average SPLs & the dynamic range of a recording just to break the drivers in. Life is too short. Just use a bit of common sense & some material of the requisite type that you are familiar with; then use the MK1 eyeball to ensure the cone isn't shifting, on the largest dynamic peaks, more than the requisite ammont. Job done.

Reply from Ra.....
If you read my posts carefully, this is precisely what I suggested. I for one don't need to be told how to break in drivers, let alone measuring the excursion.
My suggestions were because some new members were taking Mark's advice a little too literally. Anyway, its done and dusted.
Hi Guys,
The fault should fall on my shoulders. As you both likely know, I tend to bury myself in the factory labs, anechoic chambers and sample rooms cooking X-max capable, extended range drivers using compliant suspensions for lighter loadings. From what I've seen so far, I'm the only driver driver designer taking this approach. Most (if not all other) full-rangers have stiffer commercial grade suspensions (parts bin) or are super-duper efficient with no X-max to speak of. So, in effect, we're into some new territory. Those guys using the new Alp10's will know what I mean. One whiff of drum beat, the new Alp10's cones are already on the move.

I need to better explain run-in without making it too complex. More suggestions are welcome.

Thanks

Mark.

Last edited by markaudio; 2nd March 2011 at 06:51 AM. Reason: additional
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Old 2nd March 2011, 07:50 AM   #22
zman01 is offline zman01  Bangladesh
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Mark,

You are very right - Bangladesh latitude is very close to that of Hong Kong. Like you, soon we will have to say goodbye to pleasant temps and get ready for the summer heat.

I will either run the Alps from shorter periods or get them in a room where the air-con will run for longer periods - that should keep things cool. Need to dig out my IC driven amp now...

Regarding the box you are again on the money. I am planning for Pensil 12, but might go for Super Pensil if I can accomodate the extra height and slightly larger foot print. My listening space is modest in size - 14.5' x 12.5' with 9.5' walls. There is some furniture in the room and floors are hard tiles (no carpet). For amps I have a Chinese EL 34PP and a Miniwatt N3. If you think Super Pensil will not be overpowering, I can try to make some extra room for the bigger cabs.

Again thank you for efforts and coming up with these products for the DIY market. I have not used any of the Alps yet, but read great things about them. Look forward to more innovations in the future (and do keep us rockers/headbangers in mind ). Also thanks to Scott for his excellent designs. I have got valuable inputs from Dave and other forum members, and with so many helpful, knowledgable, and enthusiastic folks particpating, this is a great place to be at .

Hope to have the drivers in hand by mid March and complete the build within a week of that.

-Zia
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Old 2nd March 2011, 10:21 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zman01 View Post
Mark,

You are very right - Bangladesh latitude is very close to that of Hong Kong. Like you, soon we will have to say goodbye to pleasant temps and get ready for the summer heat.

I will either run the Alps from shorter periods or get them in a room where the air-con will run for longer periods - that should keep things cool. Need to dig out my IC driven amp now...

Regarding the box you are again on the money. I am planning for Pensil 12, but might go for Super Pensil if I can accomodate the extra height and slightly larger foot print. My listening space is modest in size - 14.5' x 12.5' with 9.5' walls. There is some furniture in the room and floors are hard tiles (no carpet). For amps I have a Chinese EL 34PP and a Miniwatt N3. If you think Super Pensil will not be overpowering, I can try to make some extra room for the bigger cabs.

Again thank you for efforts and coming up with these products for the DIY market. I have not used any of the Alps yet, but read great things about them. Look forward to more innovations in the future (and do keep us rockers/headbangers in mind ). Also thanks to Scott for his excellent designs. I have got valuable inputs from Dave and other forum members, and with so many helpful, knowledgable, and enthusiastic folks particpating, this is a great place to be at .

Hope to have the drivers in hand by mid March and complete the build within a week of that.
-Zia
Hi Zia,
Should be an interesting project. Room size should be OK for either Pencil or Super Pencil provided you've got a listening distance of around 9 feet. Given you're into some rock un roll, the Super P may suit you better. Given the damping can be adjusted, you'll have choices on the volume and style of bass response.

The Chinese EL34PP should be quite nice. Depending on your tube selection, you'll get going with rock un roll, beat music. I've also got Derek's N3 but its a bit small for the Alp12's. I often play my Pencil 12's using my old Sony 333ex Mofset. Lovely match with the 12's in Pencil for beat music. The Sony is on the warm side so helps to "tame" re-mastered recordings. It's 100 watts are plenty for the 12's, giving lots of bass as and when needed. I picked up 2 333ex's for $100 USD each so you might find these on the web or possibly locally.

Those guys interested in buying vintage gear direct from Japan, take a look at "Hi-Fi Do". This company is based in Tokyo, has many outlets, has an export section that speaks English. Remember Japan is 100V so you'll need a voltage converter if your country/region is different:

HiFi-Do McIntosh/JBL/audio-technica/Jeff Rowland/Accuphase

Glad to help. Scotts efforts are fab, along with all the DIYaudio members who've contributed with their feedback.

Cheers
Mark
(PS - remember to do the gentle run-in - thanks)

Last edited by markaudio; 2nd March 2011 at 11:00 PM.
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Old 3rd March 2011, 02:52 AM   #24
zman01 is offline zman01  Bangladesh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markaudio View Post
The Sony is on the warm side so helps to "tame" re-mastered recordings.
Mark,

I get kind of the same effect with EL34 PP - lot of poor recordings sound lush and listenable. I'll look for a 333ex for the experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by markaudio View Post
Room size should be OK for either Pencil or Super Pencil provided you've got a listening distance of around 9 feet.
I can work out up to 9" listening distance on the shorter side (12.5') and couple of feet more on the longer side (14.5') of the room. I can only work out max 6' of space between the speakers. I have provided an illustration with Super Pensil foorprint and keping 10" dstance from side wall and 12" from back wall. In your listening experence with Alps 12 and Pensils, Is 6" enough distance between the speaker cabinets?
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Old 3rd March 2011, 04:29 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zman01 View Post
Mark,
I get kind of the same effect with EL34 PP - lot of poor recordings sound lush and listenable. I'll look for a 333ex for the experience.
I can work out up to 9" listening distance on the shorter side (12.5') and couple of feet more on the longer side (14.5') of the room. I can only work out max 6' of space between the speakers. I have provided an illustration with Super Pensil foorprint and keping 10" dstance from side wall and 12" from back wall. In your listening experence with Alps 12 and Pensils, Is 6" enough distance between the speaker cabinets?
Hi Zia,
Yes, EL34's could do nicely. Your not in need of lots of power given your room size. Its worth experimenting with a cheap old descent Mosfet should one come your way.
6 feet between the cabs should be OK. You'll to experiment with the on/off axis to blend with the room.
Cheers
Mark.

Last edited by markaudio; 3rd March 2011 at 04:32 AM. Reason: additional
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Old 3rd March 2011, 09:04 AM   #26
zman01 is offline zman01  Bangladesh
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Thanks again Mark. Once the run in with the drivers is done (which I will do it gently and carefully) look fwd to sharing you my listening impressions.

Now just need to decide on Pensil 12 vs Super Pensil... Pensil 12s are very much suitable from an aesthetics and WAF factor for my room... Super Pensils entice with their promise of better low end, given my preference for heavy music. Whichever one, I'm sure to have fun!

-Zia
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Old 4th March 2011, 11:38 PM   #27
StevenZ is offline StevenZ  United States
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I've seen it mentioned a million times. What does "WAF" stand for?
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Old 4th March 2011, 11:47 PM   #28
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WAF = Wife Acceptance Factor

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Old 5th March 2011, 12:21 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markaudio View Post
Hi Guys,
The fault should fall on my shoulders. As you both likely know, I tend to bury myself in the factory labs, anechoic chambers and sample rooms cooking X-max capable, extended range drivers using compliant suspensions for lighter loadings. From what I've seen so far, I'm the only driver driver designer taking this approach. Most (if not all other) full-rangers have stiffer commercial grade suspensions (parts bin) or are super-duper efficient with no X-max to speak of. So, in effect, we're into some new territory. Those guys using the new Alp10's will know what I mean. One whiff of drum beat, the new Alp10's cones are already on the move.

I need to better explain run-in without making it too complex. More suggestions are welcome.

Thanks

Mark.
A small suggestion, if I may. Instead of printing this out in various languages, you can post the English instructions in a web page, and let Google Translate do the job of translating the instructions in other languages.
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Old 5th March 2011, 01:48 AM   #30
StevenZ is offline StevenZ  United States
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Hahaha Wife acceptance factor. That's a good one.
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