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Old 22nd January 2011, 01:18 PM   #1
Swifty is offline Swifty  Netherlands
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Default Pensil 10.2 or 12 wrt bass extention?

Hi everybody,

I am either building the pensil 10.2 or the normal pensil 12. I'd build the Superpensil but they will not pass the WAF.

I know the Superpensil will have better low end extention than the Pensil 10.2 but what about the normal Pensil 12?

Looking at the datasheets, the 10.2 cabinet actually has a bigger volume and the 10.2 driver has a lower fs. Will this result in a lower F6? Simulating both drivers in WinISD seems to indicate so in a BR alignment.

SPL is not of major importance but dynamics are. I mostly listen to small scale jazz / folk / blues but the occasional large scale orchestral works should not sound constrained.

On the other hand, off axis listening should be enjoyable as well, hence my doubts about the larger Alpair 12. I'd rather go for the 10.2 if the range is about the same compared to the 12.

Any thoughts?
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Old 22nd January 2011, 08:21 PM   #2
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Hi Swifty,
Come at the project from the this direction........

1 - How big is your room?
2 - How damped is your room (lots of furniture, carpet etc)?
3 - Amplification and source?
4 - Only Stereo or also future HT use?

Tell us more

Cheers

Mark.
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Old 22nd January 2011, 09:24 PM   #3
Swifty is offline Swifty  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markaudio View Post
Hi Swifty,
Come at the project from the this direction........

1 - How big is your room?
2 - How damped is your room (lots of furniture, carpet etc)?
3 - Amplification and source?
4 - Only Stereo or also future HT use?

Tell us more

Cheers

Mark.
Thanks for the response Mark. As for your questions:

1)The room is L shaped, with the living room being about 6x5 meters, and a kitchen of about 12 square meters making up a shallow L shape.

2)The floor is solid oak on concrete, upholstered couches and curtains. I would say the room is averagely dampened.

3)Aplification is done via a Unison Research Unico integrated amplifier, the original version. It has a ECC82 pre amp stage and a 2x90W transistor power stage. The source is a Sony CDP X303ES

4)Strictly Stereo, with plans to switch to a NAS/media server with diy DAC as source.

BR,
Foppe

Last edited by Swifty; 22nd January 2011 at 09:34 PM.
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Old 23rd January 2011, 01:02 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swifty View Post
Thanks for the response Mark. As for your questions:
1)The room is L shaped, with the living room being about 6x5 meters, and a kitchen of about 12 square meters making up a shallow L shape.
2)The floor is solid oak on concrete, upholstered couches and curtains. I would say the room is averagely dampened.
3)Aplification is done via a Unison Research Unico integrated amplifier, the original version. It has a ECC82 pre amp stage and a 2x90W transistor power stage. The source is a Sony CDP X303ES
4)Strictly Stereo, with plans to switch to a NAS/media server with diy DAC as source.
BR,
Foppe
Hi Foppe,
Interesting. 30 square metres, a fair sized room. Room size is the primary factor so........... I'd tempted with the Alpair 12 in the Super-Pencil 12 box. Dave (Planet 10) has the plan on his site:

http://homepage.mac.com/tlinespeaker...aps-211010.pdf

The other consideration is the Alpair 10.2 in its matched Pencil cab which also should do the job well.

I get the feeling that you'll like the dynamics of the Alpair 12. It has the advantage of the larger cone so in theory suit the room size slightly better.

Hoping others will also comment

Cheers

Mark.
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Old 23rd January 2011, 02:03 PM   #5
Swifty is offline Swifty  Netherlands
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Thanks Mark, for confirming my gut feeling. One thing though: You recommend the Superpensil enclosure. What about the normal Pensil 12? As I said, the size of the Super will be a hard sell to SWMBO. Is the normal sized pensil too much of a compromise?
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Old 23rd January 2011, 10:02 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swifty View Post
Thanks Mark, for confirming my gut feeling. One thing though: You recommend the Superpensil enclosure. What about the normal Pensil 12? As I said, the size of the Super will be a hard sell to SWMBO. Is the normal sized pensil too much of a compromise?
Arrrrr....... yes, interesting question, normal Pencil 12 V Pencil 10.2.

I've ordered a pair of Oakwood (Tony Wong) 10.2 Pencils. Hoping they will arrive before the Chinese New Year holiday. In the meantime, I've got a pair of old Oakwood Pencil 10's. I'm going to install the new 10.2 drivers into these cabs and add extra damping. Scott has advised me to add extra damping to allow for the Alp10.2's greater Qts and Vas. While using 10.2 drivers in old Pencil 10 cabs isn't an optimal combination, it should work sufficiently to allow us a comparison with my Japanese (white birchwood) built Pencil 12's. I'll ask Norio and Tony to feedback on this thread.

There's a listening event arranged for tomorrow afternoon so will ask the guys to comment on bass delivery from both these systems. Once the 10.2 cabs arrive, I'll repeat the event but this will have to be sometime in mid February.

Cheers

Mark.

Last edited by markaudio; 23rd January 2011 at 10:12 PM.
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Old 23rd January 2011, 10:13 PM   #7
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As Mark notes, Pencil 10.2 will have a bit more grunt on the bottom end; Pencil 12 should have a somewhat wider dynamic BW.
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Old 23rd January 2011, 10:23 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Scottmoose View Post
As Mark notes, Pencil 10.2 will have a bit more grunt on the bottom end; Pencil 12 should have a somewhat wider dynamic BW.
Hi Scott (still up?)
Be really interesting to also run a pair of Super Pencil 12 V Pencil 10.2. We've got a new cab maker who does nice plywood units. We've got him making a small cab to see the quality of his work. Could be a candidate maker for a Super Pencil 12.

Cheers

Mark.
(my SKYPES's on if you fancy a chat)
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Old 24th January 2011, 07:04 AM   #9
Swifty is offline Swifty  Netherlands
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Originally Posted by markaudio View Post
..... I'll ask Norio and Tony to feedback on this thread.

There's a listening event arranged for tomorrow afternoon so will ask the guys to comment on bass delivery from both these systems. Once the 10.2 cabs arrive, I'll repeat the event but this will have to be sometime in mid February.

Cheers

Mark.

That would be great Mark, I'm looking forward to hearing what they have to say.

Br,
Foppe
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Old 24th January 2011, 07:07 AM   #10
Swifty is offline Swifty  Netherlands
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Originally Posted by Scottmoose View Post
As Mark notes, Pencil 10.2 will have a bit more grunt on the bottom end; Pencil 12 should have a somewhat wider dynamic BW.
Thanks for the comment Scott, This is basically what WinISD also hints at and exactly why I'm undecided....Let's see what the feedback from the lstening test will be.
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