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Old 28th January 2011, 02:36 AM   #31
mp9 is offline mp9  United States
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Mark, i haven't had the opportunity to hear any of them. Been excited about the new drivers, followed and asked questions for months.

What i like:
Dynamic contrast, i.e., loud/soft jumps in music with the impact of how it sounds live, but without having to listen at those ear damaging volume levels to get it.
Wide well balanced bw.
Quality bass, not earth shaking.
Warmish and easy to listen to.

Rooms = small - modest, furniture/carpet "damped" (no basement foundation or hurricane region cinder block walls).
Source = Sony XA707ES cdp i've had for years and am happy with. Belt drive and DD old Technics TT's, not great but at this point i lack the patience to do vinyl right for it to be worth investing in better.
Not ready to get into DAC's/high rez downloads.

Now for the boring long winded part. I'm not educated enough to know the EE tech aspects of vocal sibilance. Bought up the issue on diyaudio wrt, iirc the Fostex 138ES-R. Seemed like the next great driver for me to work with till i read more of them. Was told the fq resp plot didn't show peaks in the region which would cause sibilance. Experience began with a not even one year old ProAc Response 2S on loan from another audiophile. I read stellar reviews in many audio mags. Sounded good the first few hours till i began to play female artist. Thought perhaps it was bad system matching since the audio reviewers never mentioned it and it was so pronounced. Had to investigate further so toted the little speakers to various HiFi shops, hooked up to gear by CJ, Lamm, Pass and Roland, all with top notch front ends. Same Sibilance every time. After that i heard it right away when visiting shops that actually had Resp2S set-up. I attributed it to something with the mid-base driver/tweeter/x-over. I didn't have that problem with the same tweeter, diff mid-bass and x-over point ProAc 1SC/300b amp. Ultimately gave them up for lack of bass in my smallest room.
Early on in my "HiFi" journey i noticed speakers by different manufactures which appeared to employ some or all of the same drivers having the same sonic signature, good or bad. I concluded the drivers are going to do certain things well or not so good despite different implementations regardless of the better or worse attributes complimented (or not), by box design.

Again my recollection of the vocabulary describing the A12 vs the A10.2 reminded me of what was said in the audio mags of a fair amount loudspeakers which i found not to my liking, often too sibilant.
Basically, my thoughts are Dynamics, Power Handling/low watts and a engaging yet at the same time easy to listen to sound. I've discussed ideas/issues over the months and received great answers from all. I realize the trial and error factor, yet just when i thought i knew which could be right for me i read something that raised concern and cast doubt (the A.D.D factor of a significant snow fall and skiing didn't help either). If the analytical/cold/warm differences are small and you're picking at straws, i'd feel more comfortable with the A12. The Silbury/A10.2 is appealing but i realized Scott's rear firing types, Mashowe, Victor etc., are better suited to my rooms just not for drivers i'm not interested in. So the insanity continues, glad i've narrowed it down to only two drivers, now if i could pick one...
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Old 28th January 2011, 03:11 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mp9 View Post
whats the deal with the 12 being described as cold and analytical to the 10.2's warmth, i.e., those attributes make me think of bright in your face detail. Usually result of dips and rises in fq resp xross the bw. Whats more alarming to me about that is in most all cases when i read of a speaker review describing such, they are sibilant too!
The Alpair12 is none of those things.

The A7, 10.2, 12 are all very much of the same family. Similarity far outweighs any differences. Differences lie largely along what you expect given cone size. (the one thing that isn't expected is that A12 goes no lower than A10.2).

For myself, who holds the ability to throw a deep 3D image/soundstage as very important, i pick the A7 over the A12 (i think A10.2 is closer to A7 than A12 in this respect). No question thou that a need for big dynamics, the A12s cone area comes to the fore. One can ameriolate that, by spending the differnce between A12 and A7 or 10.2 on 2 (or 4) helper woofers, but that leads to a more complex system.

dave
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Old 28th January 2011, 05:26 AM   #33
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Smile Hi - just a taste!

Hi from the cold north!

Just a quick look at my project - there will be a new tread after the weekend with more pics!
Spkr have been warming up through the night - sounds VERY prom.....

Olav
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Old 28th January 2011, 09:09 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mp9 View Post
Mark, i haven't had the opportunity to hear any of them. Been excited about the new drivers, followed and asked questions for months.

What i like:
Dynamic contrast, i.e., loud/soft jumps in music with the impact of how it sounds live, but without having to listen at those ear damaging volume levels to get it.
Wide well balanced bw.
Quality bass, not earth shaking.
Warmish and easy to listen to.

Rooms = small - modest, furniture/carpet "damped" (no basement foundation or hurricane region cinder block walls).
Source = Sony XA707ES cdp i've had for years and am happy with. Belt drive and DD old Technics TT's, not great but at this point i lack the patience to do vinyl right for it to be worth investing in better.
Not ready to get into DAC's/high rez downloads.
Hi Mp9,
You also mentioned 2a3 amplification. Any more details? Pics would be useful of your amp, rest of your set up and the listening room.

Thanks
Mark.
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Old 28th January 2011, 12:36 PM   #35
StevenZ is offline StevenZ  United States
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Mark and others, y'all have mentioned that all of the equipment must be compatible for a great sounding reproduction and obviously some of the more esoteric equipment is a bit out of my price range. I'm currently building one of Peter Daniel's LM3875 Premium dual mono gainclone kits. Would this kind of amplification be suitable for the A12's or A10.2's? Cd player is still up in the air as I'm just now venturing into home audio. Though I can tell you that when the purchase is made it will most likely be a budget CD player with average performance, though within a couple hundred dollars or so. Any input you can give me would greatly help as I'm still in the building process of my listening room and the equipment I'll use is still undecided upon besides for the Audiosector gainclone.

Thanks,
Steven Z
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Old 28th January 2011, 01:04 PM   #36
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Mark,
I have a questions about alternatice enclosure material. I am in the glass business and have acces to any type of glass in any thickness as well as tempered or laminated. If i had the pieces for the Pensil cut and bonded them with a 1/4" seam using heavy polyurethane caulk, would this work. I don't have a very good understanding of material effects on final sound. i know a particular speaker maker has supposedly come out with "super glass" for their designs and it has been well received. I am just looking to put my mark on this whole process.
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Old 28th January 2011, 02:10 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenZ View Post
Mark and others, y'all have mentioned that all of the equipment must be compatible for a great sounding reproduction and obviously some of the more esoteric equipment is a bit out of my price range. I'm currently building one of Peter Daniel's LM3875 Premium dual mono gainclone kits. Would this kind of amplification be suitable for the A12's or A10.2's? Cd player is still up in the air as I'm just now venturing into home audio. Though I can tell you that when the purchase is made it will most likely be a budget CD player with average performance, though within a couple hundred dollars or so. Any input you can give me would greatly help as I'm still in the building process of my listening room and the equipment I'll use is still undecided upon besides for the Audiosector gainclone.

Thanks,
Steven Z
Hi Steve,
Sure, matching equipment is all part of the fun.
Re the CD player. A quality used player might be the way to go. For example:

Denon DCD1550 for sale on Ebay (DCD 1650 is even better if you can find one):

Denon DCD-1550AR Audiophile CD Player - Pristine - eBay (item 320648050146 end time Feb-01-11 16:42:27 PST)

Here's an example of 2 nice Pioneer's:

Pioneer Elite PD-65 PD65 CD Player - eBay (item 280621089220 end time Feb-01-11 15:55:46 PST)

Pioneer Elite PD-65 Compact Disc Player - eBay (item 110640464613 end time Feb-04-11 11:48:28 PST)

Or something newer could come from the Cambridge Azure range:

Cambridge Audio Azur 640C CDP CD Player - eBay (item 300519569669 end time Feb-02-11 18:20:14 PST)

I think the Peter Daniel's Gainclones put out around 40watts (8 Ohm). If so, this should be OK for either Alpair 10.2 or 12. Also consider the Alpair 7. I have run Pencil 7's at home on either solid state or tubes.

Cheers

Mark.
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Old 28th January 2011, 02:14 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzforb View Post
Mark,
I have a questions about alternatice enclosure material. I am in the glass business and have acces to any type of glass in any thickness as well as tempered or laminated. If i had the pieces for the Pensil cut and bonded them with a 1/4" seam using heavy polyurethane caulk, would this work. I don't have a very good understanding of material effects on final sound. i know a particular speaker maker has supposedly come out with "super glass" for their designs and it has been well received. I am just looking to put my mark on this whole process.
Hi Buzz,
I've seen glass boxes before. Not sure how well they work but if the glass is thick enough to keep cab resonance down, could be a very interesting project. If you do it, please post pics and listening impressions - thanks.
Cheers
Mark.
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Old 28th January 2011, 03:32 PM   #39
mp9 is offline mp9  United States
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Mark, i found links of my primary gear:

CDP, Sony CDP-X707ES & CDP-777ESJ on TVK
Amp, 6moons audio reviews: Fi 45 Stereo "Prototype"
*note i have the 2A3 stereo version not the 45 prototype featured.
I alternate between JJ 2A3-40 and Shuguang treasure black bottle 2A3-Z power tubes.
Additional gear:
B&K solid state preamp i only use when i need the phono stage for the primary system, otherwise i use my HH Scott 222c int amp for vinyl. I run the Fi 2A3 amp direct via the X707ES variable output option.
Speaker wire: Kimber 8tc

And yes a picture's worth a thousand words only i haven't replaced my broken digicam, cell phone died, stuck with old one till verizon comes out with 4G phones in the spring/summer. Tried taking the pics with the old cell but they were terrible.
If i use the 35mm SLR i'll prob have your drivers by the time i'd get the film processed, which going from what buzz and Dave said, doesn't really seem like such a bad thing either.
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Old 28th January 2011, 07:17 PM   #40
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Buzz,

The glass should probably be tempered. And given the damping inside, translucent at least.

dave
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