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Old 1st January 2011, 02:30 AM   #1
winslow is offline winslow  United States
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Default New Alpair 5?

Is there one in the works or should I snatch up the few remaining ones on the market?
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Old 2nd January 2011, 02:22 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winslow View Post
Is there one in the works or should I snatch up the few remaining ones on the market?
Hi Winslow,
Allot depends on market conditions next year. I do have a new Alpair 5 ready to be built. The new model follows the Generation 2 family. But, will there be enough demand to make a production viable? ......Ummmmmph, don't know at this stage. Talk to your nearest dealers, get your friends to do the same. If there's enough interest and orders come through, I'll be happy to make them.

Cheers

Mark.
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Old 2nd January 2011, 02:59 AM   #3
_henry_ is offline _henry_  Australia
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mark, what would be the improvements with the current alpair5?

cheers
henry
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Old 2nd January 2011, 04:05 AM   #4
winslow is offline winslow  United States
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I'm tossing around between the A5 and the A6 for car use. Though you would probably recommend against it, the A6P has really caught my eye.

That might be a market worth looking into if you haven't already.
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Old 2nd January 2011, 05:12 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winslow View Post
I'm tossing around between the A5 and the A6 for car use. Though you would probably recommend against it, the A6P has really caught my eye.
That might be a market worth looking into if you haven't already.
I'd suggest Alpair 6M as the better choice. Its metal cone is more suited to the in-car variable environment (temp and humidity etc). This driver needs less volume to work nicely compared to the 6P. Essentially, I designed the 6M with near-field uses in mind.

Some car guys in Japan are already using the 6M. I'm told they like the sound and the gold cone look (especially in black interiors).

Cheers

Mark.
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Old 2nd January 2011, 05:49 AM   #6
winslow is offline winslow  United States
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I have a black interior and CSS SDX7 midbasses....might look pretty good together.

Thanks Mark.

And keep an eye on the car audio market. Wideband drivers are coming in fad here in the states and europe. Most major players have some sort of 2 1/2 or 3 inch driver these days. And if you do decide to take a venture in to car audio, the only negative I can find with your speakers are the really large frame sizes to cone area.

Last edited by winslow; 2nd January 2011 at 06:02 AM.
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Old 2nd January 2011, 09:51 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winslow View Post
I have a black interior and CSS SDX7 midbasses....might look pretty good together.
Thanks Mark.
And keep an eye on the car audio market. Wideband drivers are coming in fad here in the states and europe. Most major players have some sort of 2 1/2 or 3 inch driver these days. And if you do decide to take a venture in to car audio, the only negative I can find with your speakers are the really large frame sizes to cone area.
My Woof 6 uses a frame suitable for cars. The cone is treated with a fine polymer coating so its finding its way into cars.

I have 2 frame choices for Alpair 5.....
1 - Internally modify the existing frame to take the new power-train (frame O/D remains the same at 100-mm)
2 - Use an entirely new frame design that has a smaller O/D of 95-mm

Using the new frame adds another US$1200 to the costs. While not a great sum, it increases the driver's retail cost if the production run remains small (less than 1000 units).

All said, there are 2 possible benefits using the smaller frame. Its easier to use in smaller slim desktop boxes (popular in Japan right now); Similarly for other small applications such as car.

Opinions on making the frame O/D smaller are welcome........

Cheers

Mark.

Last edited by markaudio; 2nd January 2011 at 09:52 PM. Reason: typo fix
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Old 3rd January 2011, 12:47 AM   #8
winslow is offline winslow  United States
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Whatever you do, I'll take a whopping 3 of these when they are finished.

Honestly I doubt that there would be much benefit in spending $1200 to reduce the frame O/D a total of 5mm. Now if you got the frame down into the 88mm range with a 76mmcutout, then it probably would be worth it IMO. At that point you would be in the Fostex, Fountek, and Tang Band size range. And those are really really popular 3" drivers at the moment here in the states. Keep the mounting depth shallow like the previous one at around 1.5"...and I think you would have a winner for at least us car guys.

I also think you could trade some lowend extension for a touch more sensitivity. I would think most of these speakers would end up in FAST-type designs and would only need to reach down into the 300 hertz range. I can't speak for the home guys, but something like that would be awesome in the car where you have larger midbasses/woofers used anyways.

I think you would be surprised at the current car market for these drivers. H-Audio is making 3" drivers for a ton of the car audio community, and have several new ranges coming out as well. DLS who rebadges a fiberglass coned Vifa is huge in Europe. The Focal 3 is big. Pioneer has several models of 3s very popular in Japan. Take a look at pictures of EMMA Finals in Europe and I'm sure you will see more than a few installs using these drivers. But I'm sure with your travels to Japan you've probably seen quite a few cars with pillar/dash mounted 3s.

Anyways, sorry for taking this so far off track.

I have to say though, it is very darned cool of you to even ask the public something like this...and is very ballsy to provide raw data. Much respect for that.

And if you would like I could email you directly a few more things.

Last edited by winslow; 3rd January 2011 at 01:07 AM.
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Old 3rd January 2011, 01:35 AM   #9
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Hi Winslow,
Many thanks for the feedback, most interesting. I'e been pleasantly surprised by the variety of uses for my drivers. Car and marine applications crop up regularly. I'll do more thinking about how to address the differences between home (DIY), car and marine applications.

On frame size, I'd like to get the diameter smaller. It becomes challenging as we get smaller because the Alpair's frame mass is used to control resonance's coming off the edge of the cone. Larger high mass frames allow me to use low mass soft compliance front suspensions. This design approach contributes to lighten Markaudio driver power-trains while retaining wider excursions. Markaudio frame designs allows for the optimum use of under-hung front suspensions, keeping the area around the front of the cone free for greater dispersion.

Take a look at most small drivers and you'll notice fairly big thick front suspensions (rubber cone surrounds), usually sticking up beyond the cone. Great for cost down production as it gives cheap damping control, but acoustically compromised by limiting dispersion, frequency range and micro-resonence generation.

You've interestingly pointed to the differences between the Markaudio drivers, primarily designed for classic full-range high-end home audio, and other approaches that head towards modern multi-way. So you may have set me a very interesting engineering design challenge for 2011!

Thanks for your words of encouragement, much appreciated. Markaudio is a tiny spec of a company compared to those you've mentioned. So on behalf of all the little guys in the audio business... a big thanks for the support.

Feel free to further comment. Hoping other DIYers will also feedback.

My email: support@markaudio.com

Cheers
Mark.

Last edited by markaudio; 3rd January 2011 at 01:52 AM. Reason: additional info
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Old 3rd January 2011, 01:40 AM   #10
winslow is offline winslow  United States
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Well I'll just post them here rather than email.

The first two pictures are of the kevlar coned H-Audio 3. Copper shorting rings and rosewood phase plugs. These have a MSRP of $450 for the pair.

The next is the H-Audio AP3. This was supposed to have been the successor to the Fountek FR88ex. H-Audio made the Founteks but Fountek chose another build house and these never came to market. What caught my eye was the dust cap shape.

Last is the beryllium/magnesium coned 3. Same motor/phase plug as the kevlar driver

These are all made by H-Audio, you probably know them being in the industry...I think they are somewhere in Asia. This is what people are buying for SOTA car drivers.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Ar3k2.jpg (30.3 KB, 344 views)
File Type: jpg Ar3k3.jpg (32.8 KB, 339 views)
File Type: jpg 4ohms.jpg (13.5 KB, 337 views)
File Type: jpg xr3a.jpg (110.8 KB, 337 views)
File Type: jpg xr3b.jpg (78.7 KB, 330 views)
File Type: jpg xr3c.jpg (104.3 KB, 73 views)
File Type: jpg SPLvsFreqxr3.jpg (39.8 KB, 73 views)
File Type: jpg ImpedencevsFreqxr3.jpg (47.2 KB, 51 views)

Last edited by winslow; 3rd January 2011 at 01:42 AM.
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