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Old 31st December 2010, 01:54 PM   #11
mp9 is offline mp9  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight Rider View Post
Hello!

Have you guys compared what is the difference (bass quality/amount) between double bass reflex studio monitors and pensils?


Br
Arto
...i'm curious about them too and would think the pensils are considered a air coupler so i'll guess it may be that you don't end up with vented box one note (bloat), bass?
Been waiting to hear from the designers, and please don't forget to include the aln dual column air coupler "Nessi" in that comparison.
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Old 28th January 2011, 07:30 AM   #12
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I decided to build Pensil 12 cabinets. One cabinet is allmost ready. Hopefylly I will get first listening impressions during next weekend. I used 21 mm plywood with internal 23x23 mm strips to fix plates together with home tools. I think that cabinet is very rigid now. Bracings are maybe not needed.

I will maybe add additional 30 mm thick plate with spikes under the cabinet. According to my experiences spikes are very useful, but I will need an extra plate to fix M6-threaded inserts properly.

How about chamfering/filleting the front corners? Is it needed?

I will use Polyester stuffing inside the cabinet. How much stuffing is needed for Pensil 12?
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Old 28th January 2011, 09:16 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight Rider View Post
I decided to build Pensil 12 cabinets. One cabinet is allmost ready.

I will maybe add additional 30 mm thick plate with spikes under the cabinet. According to my experiences spikes are very useful, but I will need an extra plate to fix M6-threaded inserts properly.

How about chamfering/filleting the front corners? Is it needed?

I will use Polyester stuffing inside the cabinet. How much stuffing is needed for Pensil 12?
Hi Kn,
Shouldn't be necessary to chamfer the corners. Add around 0.5lb (227g) of stuffing, adjust this material volume to suit your listening taste.
Post some pics - thx

Thx
Mark.
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Old 28th January 2011, 05:41 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by markaudio View Post
Hi Kn,
Shouldn't be necessary to chamfer the corners. Add around 0.5lb (227g) of stuffing, adjust this material volume to suit your listening taste.
Post some pics - thx

Thx
Mark.
Hi Mark,

Based on the calculations, would the right amount of stuffing to be around 0.5 - 0.8kg?

Cheers,

Edwin
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File Type: jpg Alpair 10 12 pensil polyfill weight.jpg (88.5 KB, 462 views)
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Old 28th January 2011, 09:38 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by southernoise View Post
Hi Mark,
Based on the calculations, would the right amount of stuffing to be around 0.5 - 0.8kg?
Cheers,
Edwin
Hi Edwin,
I used an online calc to get grams/Kg as Scott quotes imperial:

Answer: 0.5 lb = 0.226796 kg

But, lets ask Scott in case I've misunderstood his original spec.

Cheers

Mark.

Last edited by markaudio; 28th January 2011 at 09:40 PM.
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Old 28th January 2011, 09:51 PM   #16
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The design nominal is ~1.18 - 1.75 lbs. (0.535 - 0.8Kg) of dacron or similar per box (0.5 - 0.75lbs. ft.^3), & you can tailor the response as desired by adjusting the quantity of damping to taste.

Last edited by Scottmoose; 28th January 2011 at 10:07 PM.
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Old 29th January 2011, 02:37 AM   #17
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Hi Scott,

What would be the effect of increasing/decreasing the damping material? Would it matter if some parts of the cabinet is more densely packed? Thanks.

Edwin
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Old 29th January 2011, 09:02 AM   #18
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Increasing density will progressively damp the LF output (& visa versa).

Depends where it is. The damping is designed to be uniform throughout the cabinet; without it, it will not function properly.
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Old 18th February 2011, 06:53 PM   #19
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Some listening expressions after 5 hours of listening: very neutral and clean sound without any listening fatigue. Male/female vocals are awesome. Imaging is pretty good. Some piano tracks sound a little bit strange? Maybe too thin voice, not so full bodied as could be. Stuffing: 500 grams of polyester (polyfill) / cabinet. Setup: Arcam fmj cd33 cd-player and Vincent sv-236mk integrated hybrid amplifier. Setuo of Pensils: about 100 cm to front wall and 50 cm to side walls. Room: 4,2 x 3,3 x 2,4 meter. Listening distance >2m.

Which kind of setup you prefer? How much toe-in is needed?
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File Type: jpg IMG_1289.JPG (252.5 KB, 117 views)
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Old 19th February 2011, 12:18 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight Rider View Post
Some listening expressions after 5 hours of listening: very neutral and clean sound without any listening fatigue. Male/female vocals are awesome. Imaging is pretty good. Some piano tracks sound a little bit strange? Maybe too thin voice, not so full bodied as could be. Stuffing: 500 grams of polyester (polyfill) / cabinet. Setup: Arcam fmj cd33 cd-player and Vincent sv-236mk integrated hybrid amplifier. Setuo of Pensils: about 100 cm to front wall and 50 cm to side walls. Room: 4,2 x 3,3 x 2,4 meter. Listening distance >2m.
Which kind of setup you prefer? How much toe-in is needed?
Hi Knight Rider,
Looks like a very nice build. Its too soon to judge your speakers. Give the Alp12's at least 100 hours of gentle run-in. Looking at your pics and room and taking your listening distance into account, I'd suggest a slight toe-out of around 5 to 10 degrees. But you'll need to further experiment once the driver's have run gently for at least 200 hours.

Re piano, you'll to check the quality of the recordings. Your're getting good vocal but challenges with some piano leads me to suspect source quality. All sources and recordings will be 100% scrutinised by the Alps. I well remember having to hunt for the Nonesuch version of Górecki's 3rd sung by Dawn Upshaw. I bought a different recording prior to buying the Nonesuch, took me Only 3 minutes to throw into the bin! I know Górecki's 3rd well having attended concerts in London and Birmingham. Don't assume that all CD's (or vinyl) recordings are good.

Recording Górecki's Third Symphony in London, May 1991 | Nonesuch Records

Last year, I made Alp12/Pencil 12's for respected pianist John Morris. He runs Alp12's in Japanese Walnut Pencil 12 cabs, fed by a Luxman L-590-A11 int. Class A amp and a Luxman D-06 CD player. John chose this combination after many hours of listening. I spent time helping John to set up his system using my collection of Murray Perahia (mainly Naxos) CD's. John's room is fairly large (from memory 9m X 6m)

In my studio, I use Japanese White Birch wood Pencil 12's on Accuphase 308 Int. Class A/B amp and an Accuphase DP67 CD player. The Alp12 drivers in these cabs are well run-in, nothing "thin" in their sound.

In the long run, I think you'll need to do some experimentation. I'm not 100% sure if the potentially powerful Vincent is the ideal amp on your system given your listening distance is relatively close and room size is slightly tight for these big Pencils. I'm not certain how the Vincent's auto switching between Class A to A/B will effect the drivers. From what I can see Vincent and Shen Ya share technology and possibly components? If they do, its not necessarily bad news but most amplification in this sector of the market is geared to "commercial" reality. Design and component selection will be affected by this factor.

I'd also be tempted to keep a look out for a separate DAC if you intend keeping the Arcam. Good it is, but not quite in the class needed to make the best of the Alp12's. I personally only use CD players with dedicated or in-house made transports. Sadly, this means spending allot more money as yet I've found no short cut that satisfies my testing needs.

That's the beauty of DIY. It gives you the opportunity to experiment and build a great system over time.

Cheers

Mark.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg murray_perahia.jpg (240.7 KB, 88 views)
File Type: jpg spec.jpg (50.7 KB, 67 views)
File Type: jpg d06_spec.jpg (42.1 KB, 68 views)
File Type: jpg gorecki-symphony-three.jpg (33.5 KB, 48 views)

Last edited by markaudio; 19th February 2011 at 12:44 AM. Reason: typo fix
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