Alpair 6 - Gen 2. - Prototype 1 - Page 2 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Commercial Sector > Manufacturers > Markaudio

Markaudio Designers and builders of audiophile grade drivers

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 1st July 2010, 11:13 PM   #11
diyAudio Member
 
markaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Hi Fellas,
Along with the new Alpair 10, I've been busy preparing the Alpair 6 for production. I've spent some time working on the T yoke and magnet selection. The results from the frequency sweep tests are very interesting. Please take a look at the graph

Areas of interest:
1 - The electrical damping of the Alp6 samples with plain T yokes (no copper cap) changes the total Q value, such that the drivers ability to push air (Vas) is slightly reduced. From the listening point of view, the no copper driver will sound slightly lighter on the bass response. The difference is relatively small and might be factored out by a box design given that the resonance frequency is similar to the copper capped model.

2 - As I predicted, the no-copper model favours the upper middle range. From the listening point of view, is interesting having a meaty upper-middle delivery is sonically appealing.

3 - Possibly the most interesting area, adding copper to the T yoke tip usually extents the emittance range. Its the main reason why several makers (including myself) use this technique. The downside is the method often produces significant peaks from the upper-middle to high responses. I'm particularly pleased with this new paper cone. Its producing a gradual diminishing upper band micro-resonance that nicely counter balances the high-response variables from the driving force. On this graph, it can be observed that the increase in high range is significant, reasonably wide and relatively linear. However, for those system builders who like a "smooth" delivery, the no-copper driver might have the greater "silky" character. As with so many issues in Audio, beauty is in the ear of the beholder.

Cheers,

Mark.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Alp6_paper_july2010.jpg (103.7 KB, 416 views)
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st July 2010, 11:21 PM   #12
diyAudio Member
 
markaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Here's the T/S parameters from the late June-early July work.

Alp6 - With copper cap
Revc= 3.600 Ohm
Fo= 71.647 Hz
Sd= 36.320 cm2
Vas= 3.263 Ltr
Cms= 1.742m M/N
Mmd= 2.707m Kg
Mms= 2.833 g
BL= 2.743 TM
Qms= 1.843
Qes= 0.610
Qts= 0.458
Levc= 10.574u H
No= 0.190 %
SPLo= 84.810 dB

Alp6 - No copper cap
Revc= 3.600 Ohm
Fo= 73.097 Hz
Sd= 36.320 cm2
Vas= 3.335 Ltr
Cms= 1.780m M/N
Mmd= 2.537m Kg
Mms= 2.663 g
BL= 3.014 TM
Qms= 1.785
Qes= 0.485
Qts= 0.381
Levc= 63.574u H
No= 0.260 %
SPLo= 86.166 dB

Please remember these are pre-production results from 2 sample units. Provided the beta testers like the sample drivers, I normally expect to get the mass production units close to the samples. All the same, there's likely to be some small variations in the results so bear this in mind - thanks.

Last edited by markaudio; 1st July 2010 at 11:22 PM. Reason: additional info
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd July 2010, 12:12 AM   #13
diyAudio Member
 
markaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
OK chaps,
Here's the sweep comparison between Alp6 paper and metal alloy cones.

Note this is a sweep comparison between 2 samples, both employing No-copper T yokes.

1 - The metal alloy cone and power-train has the greater mass so as expected, this driver will give the sonic impression of greater bass delivery. Its Fo is lower than the paper unit at 66Hz, Vas is also greater at 3.6 litres. The laws of physics exact a price, in this case the efficiency is lower at just over 84dB. As said in a earlier post, the box design will be a significant factor in how this characteristic is applied.

2 - Here's where most of the differences between paper and metal happens. First off, I'd expect to make a little improvement in the metal cone's high range performance, by tweaking another 1 to 2-kHz extension. All the same, the paper is likely to offer the most extended high range performance.
It's interesting to observe the "peak" at around 12 to 16-kHz in the metal alloy cone. This is typical behaviour of many small metal cones (up to 75-mm Dia.) and explains why I have to spend most so much time working on cone design.

What we're likely to find is:

3 - The metal alloy cone will have greater sonic detail. The micro-resonance properties of this cone is greater than the paper unit, but not by much. The lower middle has greater delineation, (depth in audio language). However, the high end may have increased resonance compression under higher loads which may sound more "tight" for some listeners.

4 - The paper cone has the performance edge in the high range when compared to the metal alloy unit. Classic percussion, sharp drum strikes for instance is expected to carried by a better emittance pattern from this paper cone. The mid range may sound a tad more smooth compared to the metal alloy, detail remains close to the metal cone. In-fact the overall musical impression from the paper unit is expected to be more "silk smooth". This paper cone will offer allot of "balance", nothing too over or under emphasised.

As with my previous posts "beauty is in the ears of the beholder". Can I say which driver type is better? No, I can't. It all about personal choice.

Alp6 - metal alloy cone
Revc= 3.600 Ohm
Fo= 66.306 Hz
Sd= 36.320 cm2
Vas= 3.691 Ltr
Cms= 1.970m M/N
Mmd= 2.798m Kg
Mms= 2.924 g
BL= 2.834 TM
Qms= 1.789
Qes= 0.546
Qts= 0.418
Levc= 63.650u H
No= 0.191 %
SPLo= 84.418 dB

Alp6 - paper cone
Revc= 3.600 Ohm
Fo= 73.097 Hz
Sd= 36.320 cm2
Vas= 3.335 Ltr
Cms= 1.780m M/N
Mmd= 2.537m Kg
Mms= 2.663 g
BL= 3.014 TM
Qms= 1.785
Qes= 0.485
Qts= 0.381
Levc= 63.574u H
No= 0.260 %
SPLo= 86.166 dB

Cheers

Mark
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Alp6_paper_metal_fr.jpg (111.0 KB, 415 views)
File Type: jpg Alp6_gen2_1.jpg (55.4 KB, 264 views)

Last edited by markaudio; 14th July 2010 at 12:03 PM. Reason: additional info
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd July 2010, 01:34 AM   #14
diyAudio Member
 
norman bates's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: iowa
I may get a pair of the paper alpair 6 to make an ambionphonics demonstrator (open baffle with head 2' from the baffle).

The copper cap should sound much better (shorting distortion) and be easier to modifiy with components (flatter impedence curve).

Over I perfer paper, but the differences are getting smaller.

Poly have been sounding better lately being stiffer (mixed with mica, talc powder).

But stiffer metallic cones usually implies more resonances, more edgy trumpet sound.

Norman
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd July 2010, 08:59 AM   #15
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: NZ
Mark are you likely to offer paper cones on wider release than just the Japanese market in future?
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd July 2010, 11:13 AM   #16
diyAudio Member
 
markaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by gazzagazza View Post
Mark are you likely to offer paper cones on wider release than just the Japanese market in future?
Hi Gazza,
Thanks for asking this question. It gives me the opportunity to speak freely about the supply situation.

I'd like to have all my driver models more widely available. My biggest markets are Germany/EU and Japan. For Germany, Blue Planet Acoustic serves this location and looks after most of the EU. In Japan, the DIY audio market is very substantial. There's some 16 dealers carrying my drivers in Tokyo alone. From what I'm told, Markaudio now holds the No.3 sales position for full-range speakers in this country. These two markets favour new driver designs. Diyers in these locations appear more keen to embrace new products and experiment to greater degree. Supplying drivers to these two countries has been a "baptism of fire" for me personally. The Diyers, especially in Japan and very technically minded, insisting on higher engineering standards. This is a good thing as the feedback from these Diyers has pushed the development of Markaudio drivers further forward.

I feel the rest of the world is somewhat neglected. Maybe its to do with other competing hobbies and cultural interests. Some dealers tell me the DIY speaker build hobby is much smaller in their locations. The outcome is that a some dealers are reluctant to stock all my models. In part, its about how well the hobby is supported in the various locations. The main reason for my success in Germany/EU and Japan is the closer connection between Markaudio, the dealers and their end users. Nick and Thorsten (Blue Planet) are fantastic. They actively participate in making plans and designs. They support all manner of DIY events and support the local web forums. They also play a big part in promoting the hobby to younger people. Norio in Japan is similar. He devotes a great deal of time developing relationships between retailers and DIyers. He runs his own blog (fidelitatem sound ????????????), also a dedicated Japan version Markaudio site (fidelitatem sound - markaudio japan). Such has been the growth in these countries, they now have their own models (BB4-AL, CHP-70-black frame for Germany/EU, Japan has CHP-70 and Alpair 7 variants).

There's a step forward for North America now that Madisound have committed to buying a reasonable amount of initial stock. So far they've taken Alpair 7, Alpair 12 and CHR-70. I hope they will take Alpair 6 and Alpair 10 later this year. I'm not sure how much Madisound "pro-actively" support, promote and generate new interest in the hobby. It maybe that they act as a more traditional re-seller by simply making the drivers available, concentrating on price and delivery which is also to be welcomed.

For Australia, Dan Archer does his best but I think he's more comfortable selling "budget" drivers. I'd like to see all my driver models available in stock in Australia. For now, if there's a model that Dan doesn't carry, we are happy to supply Australian customers direct.

Re New Zealand, I was approached by Cameron from Hasaudio last March. He expressed an interest in becoming our dealer for NZ. I tried to set up a conversation with him but he never got back to me.

Overall, there is a "two speed" situation where a large slice of the EU and Japan are "all systems go" when it comes to developing this hobby. The efforts of the dealers, magazines, local forums and a body of motivated Diyers boosts the size and strength of the speaker building hobby in these locations. I'd be the first to admit that I wish the hobby was stronger in other locations, not just for my drivers, but for the whole hobby. I'm also an optimist so I believe speaker building hobby will grow given time and effort.

In the meantime, anyone who having problems getting supplied, simply email me - support@markaudio.com
I'll do my best to reply and get drivers to you, please remember there's only one of me.

Cheers

Mark.

Last edited by markaudio; 2nd July 2010 at 02:44 PM. Reason: typo mending
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd July 2010, 11:02 PM   #17
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: NZ
Mark, thanks for the detailed and very candid reply.

For New Zealand, and possibly Australia, I think the diy markets are probably small, and it may be difficult for a distributor to predict what will sell... with a constantly evolving product range there would be a risk of being caught with old stock and this will temper buying commitments.

For our part of the world it seems sensible to support anyone who is willing and able to distribute, but to also maintain your webstore as a "retailer of last resort" so that your customers are able to access your products no matter what. Keeping pricing arrangements above board so that no one can accuse anyone else of undercutting prices unfairly is also important.

You might consider stocking some of the specialty items in your webstore as well, the paper cone drivers for example. This would satisfy demand for those in markets where they are not currently distributed.

I think you are doing a fantastic job with your products!
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd July 2010, 12:21 AM   #18
diyAudio Member
 
markaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by gazzagazza View Post
Mark, thanks for the detailed and very candid reply.

For New Zealand, and possibly Australia, I think the diy markets are probably small, and it may be difficult for a distributor to predict what will sell... with a constantly evolving product range there would be a risk of being caught with old stock and this will temper buying commitments.

For our part of the world it seems sensible to support anyone who is willing and able to distribute, but to also maintain your webstore as a "retailer of last resort" so that your customers are able to access your products no matter what. Keeping pricing arrangements above board so that no one can accuse anyone else of undercutting prices unfairly is also important.

You might consider stocking some of the specialty items in your webstore as well, the paper cone drivers for example. This would satisfy demand for those in markets where they are not currently distributed.
I think you are doing a fantastic job with your products!
Hi Gazz,
Many thanks for your thoughts. Agreed, smaller market locations pose more challenges and risk by keeping more stock, so I do appreciate dealers concerns. Equally, Nick (Blue Planet) and Norio's examples show what can be achieved when dealers become more pro-active. I'm trying to encourage greater connection and collaboration between all interests and parties, its a great way to grow the hobby.

For example, in NZ, I think there's an audio forum? Assuming such a forum is reasonably active, members could bet together a look a doing a "group buy", something this forum does on occasion. Or, organising an approach to a maker (me or others) to make a special arrangement for its members. Thing like this all help to generate more interest and activity in the hobby.

It is frustrating for end users and myself knowing there's folks who want to try new drivers. Agreed, I'm happy to help customers who are finding it hard to get the drivers they want. I'm looking at further improvements to our web site to make driver purchases easier for those guys outside Europe and Japan.

Cheers

Mark.

Last edited by markaudio; 3rd July 2010 at 12:32 AM. Reason: Additional info
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd July 2010, 02:50 AM   #19
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: NZ
Hi mark,

Yes there is a forum here... AudioEnz and it has a diy section. I've given Mark Audio a plug there, but I think, the number of diyers likely to buy, may be small.

Regards.
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd July 2010, 02:57 PM   #20
diyAudio Member
 
markaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Hi Fellas,
We ran our listening session this afternoon at Norio's place. The music flowed, so did the coffee.
The guys evaluated 2 Alpair 6 types, both paper cone, the first with a copper cap on the T yoke, the second without the cap on the T yoke.

I've asked the fellas to contribute their thinking on this afternoon's to this thread.

Thanks

Mark.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Listen1.jpg (83.5 KB, 364 views)
File Type: jpg Listen2.jpg (65.8 KB, 348 views)
File Type: jpg listen3.jpg (63.0 KB, 212 views)
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Alpair-10 with Alpair 5, German combo markaudio Full Range 17 7th November 2010 11:58 PM
When is the alpair 10 gen 2 coming out ? norman bates Markaudio 10 1st March 2010 10:22 AM
Alpair 10 Bass + Alpair 5 - Woodwill Japan markaudio Markaudio 16 26th January 2010 11:48 AM
Hifonics gen X Thor mike49504 Car Audio 26 21st December 2009 03:00 AM
Alpair 10 wide bass driver and Alpair 10 Fullrange _henry_ Full Range 71 15th March 2009 11:37 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 10:22 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2