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Old 12th November 2009, 12:29 PM   #1
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Default Mark's proto 6.5" Woofer, 1" silk Tweet combo

New 6.5” Woofer, 1” silk dome Tweeter combo

I’ve been asked to look into producing 2 way drivers combinations by many DIYer’s over the last 2 years. So I’ve applied some my my Full range knowledge and come up with a prototype combination. Please feel free to feedback on this thread. I’ve not entered production so here’s an opportunity to help steer the potential final development of my first multi-way drivers.

Objectives:
1 - Low Cost - Many DIYer’s are worried about spending allot of money right now so low cost is an important factor. I've designed these drivers for easy construction to keep production costs down. I've been rummaging through parts bins but have still kept critical components (cone, coil, spider) as custom made items.

2 - Good Performance: Low cost shouldn’t automatically mean low performance. So these drivers should deliver good overall performance.

3 - Easy of Use. I’m been asked for this many times by DIYers asking for drivers that can operate in almost any box type. I’ve also been asked to look at making drivers easy to cross.

So here goes:
6.5” woofer. Laminated light weight paper cone design with a fairly large excursion, lightly damped, low Fo while maintaining reasonable efficiency. I wanted to keep the power-train to low moving mass targets, I think I’ve managed to achieve this so there’s some nice dynamic detail to be gained in the LF to mid ranges. I also worked to keep the response from LF to 5-kHz relatively flat creating a wide choice of crossover points. The frequency graph is RAW data, no smoothing. Total Q has been designed to be high to assist in LF delivery, especially in BR boxes.

6.5" Woofer T/S parameters:

Revc= 5.6 Ohm
Fo= 45.60 Hz
Sd= 12.668K mm²
Vas= 23.70 Ltr
Cms= 1.038m M/N
Mmd= 10.874 g
Mms= 11.694 g
BL= 4.178 T·M
Qms= 3.495
Qes= 1.077
Qts= 0.823
Levc= 246.516u H
No= 0.203 %
SPLo= 85.5 dB
X-max = 5.5-mm (1 way)
Power - 30 watts (nom)

I’ll put the Tweeter on the next post.

Cheers,

Mark.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Woof6_tweet3.jpg (71.1 KB, 3158 views)
File Type: jpg MF_woof6_fr1.jpg (80.8 KB, 2999 views)
File Type: jpg MF_woof6_imp1.jpg (97.7 KB, 2850 views)
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Old 12th November 2009, 12:41 PM   #2
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Here's the Tweeter:

1" silk dome unit in a sealed housing. My main effort on this unit was to:

1 - Extend the frequency range to + 30-kHz
2 - Keep the frequency delivery near flat, no big variations in the frequency operational range. The graph is RAW data.

Most of my work centred on the coil and the gluing method. I'm quite pleased with this little tweet. So far, my ears find it on the smooth side so sounding good.

1” (25.4mm) silk dome emitter.
Levc = 7.2 Ohm
Resonance F = 1500Hz
Range to +30-kHz
SPL = 92dB @1w/m2
Power = 20 Watts (nom)
Coil dia = 25.mm

Cheers,

Mark
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File Type: jpg Tweet_3_fr_imp.jpg (90.3 KB, 2746 views)
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Old 12th November 2009, 01:04 PM   #3
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Default Mark's proto 6.5" Woofer, 1" silk Tweet combo

Hi Guys,
Many of you will know me for my CHR-70 and Alpair full range drivers.
I've been asked by many DIYer's in recent times to do something for Multi-way applications.

Here's a 6.5" woofer and 1" silk dome tweeter.

Please take a look at my main thread and feel free to comment. I'd welcome constructive feedback as these drivers aren't in production as this stage.

Mark's proto 6.5" Woofer, 1" silk Tweet combo

Cheers,

Mark
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File Type: jpg Woof6_tweet3.jpg (71.1 KB, 2496 views)
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Old 12th November 2009, 08:04 PM   #4
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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What is the purpose of these drivers?

In other words they don't seem to offer anything substantially different from 99% of what's out there. (..and perhaps offers *less* than what's available from other sources at similarly low prices.)

IMO, even if it's a matter of multi-drivers, find a "niche" like you have for your full-range drivers.

There *are* actually some still left.

1. A driver with a good linear response, decay, and harmonic structure that ALSO has and acoustic rise in response for baffle-step compensation for a narrow baffle.

The Bandor Type - 150DW/16 at less than half of its price might be a good niche.. AND you would likely sell at least 4 units to every potential customer (..mtm 16 ohm drivers parallel).

Note that GR research has the lower-cost segment here.

2. The Jantzen JA8008 that Troels worked so hard on is another niche-type driver waiting to be provided in a *FAR* lower cost form. Basically good eff., decent extension, and a smooth extended linear response and decay at higher freq.s.

3. A driver meeting both 1 & 2, to the best of my knowledge isn't available.


As for tweeters..

That's an even tougher "nut to crack", there are so many at different prices points and quality that are all similar.

Hmm,

Say you make a driver under the #3 option above.. what tweeter would fill the niche? Perhaps a paper Piezo like Phy has (..but for about 40 US without the fancy brass)..
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Last edited by ScottG; 12th November 2009 at 08:08 PM.
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Old 12th November 2009, 08:40 PM   #5
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Hi ScottG
Many thanks for your thoughts.
Not sure I entirely agree with your first comment. I did a trawl of sites to see what woofs were on offer in the bargain basement. From what I saw, many had a limited cross range, fairly heavy cones and didn't get the 5-kHz smoothly. As the for budget tweets, 20-kHz is the order of the day and many weren't particularly linear.

Granted there will be bargains out there with good overall performance, some as "sell offs". I'm not out the re-invent the wheel. I'm looking at what can be done to offer more practical choice given the cost limitations.

I've known Doreen (Bandor) for many years. She did good work. Sadly her health is not what it was.

I'll take into account your thoughts on continuing down the niche path. It is my natural inclination. And sometimes niche can turn into main-stream should I could make a low cost special design. But its REALLY tough to do in the present conditions.

All the same I don't want to ignore the many emails I've received in the last year (71 in all) urging me to extend my activity to support the budget end of the hobby.

Cheers

Mark.

Last edited by markaudio; 12th November 2009 at 08:48 PM.
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Old 12th November 2009, 08:50 PM   #6
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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I still can't find anything different with your tweeters.. BUT

Yeah, I could see the 6.5" driver as a low cost mid-range for open baffle. However look to GR researches offerings. There is also the MCM DA175-8. Granted neither are the same, so it may well work-out depending on the price.

BTW, my posts might seem hyper-critical.. if so, they aren't meant to be. Of course if you have a built-in customer base willing to actually spend the cash, then my comments don't have much bearing.
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Old 12th November 2009, 08:51 PM   #7
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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If Mark is willing/able to his invest time and treasure on something like this, what would the DIY speaker builders possibly have to loose; except if he lands performance as good as we're hearing from the full ranger drivers and affordable prices, the snob factor?


When was the last time you heard Fostex, Tang Band, Jordan, PHY, SEAS (need I continue?) ask the denizens of our little niche market "hey guys/gals, whaddya think?"
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Old 12th November 2009, 09:03 PM   #8
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Hi ScottG
I'm glad to get your feedback. It's good to test my thinking so thanks for taking the time to comment.

Yep, on the tweets, it's going to come down to price. I looked at sub $10 USD tweet market. This is where I'm aiming to offer this baby, hence the 30-kHz extension.

The woof still has my trade-mark LF lift for BSC compensation, all be it mild compared to some of earlier work.

I'll take a further look at what's on offer - thanks for pointing GR

Mark.
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Old 12th November 2009, 09:05 PM   #9
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisb View Post
If Mark is willing/able to his invest time and treasure on something like this, what would the DIY speaker builders possibly have to loose..?


When was the last time you heard Fostex, Tang Band, Jordan, PHY, SEAS (need I continue?) ask the denizens of our little niche market "hey guys/gals, whaddya think?"
Mark and Mark Audio.. It's possible to spend to much time, money, resources, etc.. and have nothing but bills left to show if the market acceptance isn't there. ..and sadly it happens all the time, even to highly capitalized manufacturers.




Hmm, Fostex and Tangband effectively do this - in fact for the most part this is their sole market. Phy is a nich all it's own. Seas offers "up-market" customs to "boutiques" like Jantzen. Jordan worked with Mark.. and SB recently did exactly what you just described.

What they rarely do however is produce precisely (or even nearly so) what the community asks for. (..but in this case of course I have no idea what specifically was requested.)
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Last edited by ScottG; 12th November 2009 at 09:07 PM.
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Old 12th November 2009, 09:12 PM   #10
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Hi ChrisB,
Many thanks for your encouragement (much needed in the present economic climate).

I'm glad to Directly engage with system builders and end-users on a one-2-one basis as and when time permits. To my mind it makes sense to make an effort to work together. I guess this is the point you wish make.

Mark

Last edited by markaudio; 12th November 2009 at 09:24 PM.
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