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Old 4th July 2006, 02:00 PM   #1
EC8010 is offline EC8010  United Kingdom
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Default New bike? (Must have Campag Record)

I fell off my nice custom-made Mercian Reynolds 653 bike last year and damaged the derailleur and the hanger. The bike was made in 1992 so 8-speed parts aren't available any more and a new groupset is needed. It has to be Campagnolo Record. The frame needs a new hanger brazing on, so that means a respray.

I'm wondering if it's really worth spending all that money on a bike this old, or whether I should consider a new one. Where's the equivalent of diyAudio that deals with bikes? Does anyone here have an opinion?
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Old 5th July 2006, 04:54 AM   #2
rdf is offline rdf  Canada
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Work knocked me off my bikes 3 years ago but if it hadn't no question this would be an opportunity to upgrade/indulge (sounds like you're a steel fan.) Buy a new bike to take advantage of the technological advances and re-lace the rear of the damaged Mercian into a fixed gear. Two bikes for very little over the price of one. My Reynolds steel bike is over 20 years old and still one of my faves reincarnated as a fixed. Smooooth, perfect ride for relaxed city cruising.
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Old 5th July 2006, 06:26 AM   #3
maxro is offline maxro  Canada
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Care to post a pic of the damage? Steel derailleur hangers can take a great deal of bending ( and bending back) without problems. Campagnolo is generally quite good with parts support, so you should be able to find a NOS rear mech that is compatible with the rest of your running gear. The current Record drailleur might even work.

Do not jump hastily into a new 10 speed equipped bike. These modern drivetrains, with the reduced bearing surface of their narrow cogs and chains and lousy chainlines, wear out like crazy. Not to mention having a weaker rear wheel due to the major disparity in spoke tension from dishing to accomodate all those cogs (Campy is much worse than Shimano in this respect).

Since your bike is from '92, I suspect a no-go on the fixed gear conversion due to it likely sporting vertical droupouts. Fixed gears are a hoot. I own three DIY fixed gear frames myself. But, I would not describe them as "relaxed" bikes to ride.

Max
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Old 5th July 2006, 07:04 AM   #4
Variac is offline Variac  United States
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I'm also coping with 8 spd record.

I have been considering selling my 8-spd brake lever/shifters. Its just difficult to track down parts, and I'm using a 7 spd. Shimano freewheel (not a cassette) on the Campy Record hubs I've had since I was 16. Shimano cog spacing is different than Campy so shifting isn't as nice as an all Campy setup.

I'm learning a lot through various online sources such as Branford Bike.
Google them- they have a LOT of info about what is compatible.(and higher prices than most-moral dillimna (sp.))

At the moment I'm using 10 spd cranks with little chainring shims from Branford to make them work with 8 spd. I bought a Record 10 spd long cage derailer on e-bay and that works VERY well with 8 spd Campy shifters. Especially on the hills around here.

If you can stand the disgrace of a long cage they are floating around on e-Bay in the less than $150 range for NOS 2003.
Newer Record in short or Med. cage is well over $200.
If all you really need is the rear derailer then get a 10 spd-but you have to put 8spd jocky wheels on it- like maybe your old ones!

It also appears that 8 spd cassettes will work on 10 spd hubs, not sure though- prob needs a spacer or something.

I assume your frame has 130mm rear spacing- That works with 10 spd also. If it isn't 130 (I'm pretty sure 8 spd is ) then the bike shop can bend it to 130 with no harm while bending your derailer hanger back- why not try bending it since there is nothing to lose!

Anyway I'm tempted to just go all 10 spd since I have such a mishmash. Sure is nice though to buy a, 8 spd chain for $12 instead of $50 for a 10spd model...
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Old 5th July 2006, 08:06 AM   #5
EC8010 is offline EC8010  United Kingdom
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Thaks for all the advice, chaps. I'm concerned about bending the hanger back because since being bent by the crash, the derailleur has twice been caught by the back wheel and the hanger bent even more severely each time. Naturally, the derailleur shouldn't have been caught by the back wheel, but the indexing on the gears was working properly, so I don't see that it could have been far out of alignment. The jockey wheels are quite worn, and I'm wondering if that might have contributed to the problem as occasionally the chain would ride up and rub against the derailleur cage and need a slight backpedal to clear it. That's what happened the instant before the final derailleur/rear wheel disaster. I had wondered just what chain/sprocket wear was like with the 10-speed setup and thought it might not be good. Perhaps I will have to try a 10-speed derailleur on the existing set-up.

maxro: Don't get me onto single-speed bikes! I also have a single speed bike with nice Campag track hubs (hardly any dish) and track dropouts. I broke a TA crank last year (that's why I've been riding the geared bike round town). Can I get a replacement TA Cyclotourist 177.5mm crank? Only if I order a pair from Canada (expensive). And rings are no longer readily available. I've just ordered a shorter Campag bottom bracket that I calculate should allow me to steal the chainset from the geared bike, put it on the single-speed bike, and get a decent chain line. All I then have to do is to modify the chainset and fixings to only take one ring. Shouldn't be too hard with the assistance of my lathe.

Both bikes are 653 steel, but that's because that was all that was available at the time (and it could be custom-made to fit me). What are other frame materials like?

Edit: The 102mm Campagnolo Record bottom bracket has just arrived. Is it gorgeous, or what? I think we have a result. The 102mm BB puts the cranks (measured at the pedals) approx 111mm apart, whereas the old 111mm BB puts them 120mm apart. That means the chain ring will move inwards by 4.5mm, which is just what I need. But I need a special tool to fit the BB, and I'll bet it doesn't arrive in time for the weekend.
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Old 5th July 2006, 08:41 AM   #6
Variac is offline Variac  United States
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The gross generalization is (others feel free to disagree!)

Fat tube Aluminum: Most popular with mass manufacturers, abusively stiff for long rides. Most better bikes have carbon composite forks and/ or rear stays to add a bit of resiliance. Not often custom. Could eventually fatigue and crack

Titanium: still reasonably popular in the elite custom world. Nice ride and light and no paint required. Doesn't fatigue. A little plain looking, must be welded.

Modern Steel:
There is a whole new range of very strong steels:
Reynolds 853 and equal from True Temper and Columbus and some others. About a pound lighter than an older frame. These allow custom frames and they can be welded, fillet brazed or lugged.
Still have the steel ride. Many people are fanatical about steel being the best and most durable and the best way to get a reasonably priced custom frame. I have a non-custom 853 frame and like it a lot.

Even newer steels- a stainless from Reynolds and the S-3 from True Temper , are so strong they are even lighter, although that's not the top priority for most people.

Carbon Composite:
Very light, stiff, but resiliant vertically if designed right, and I believe most are these days. THE new high tech approach. Custom is very expensive. If you fit a stock size then reasonable.

Wouldn't mind having a carbon framed bike with Record- could get as light as 15 pounds!!!!

Most people are using carbon forks.

A full Campy gruppo without hubs but with carbon cranks is around $1500 here- prob more there! -yow!

edit: I have the tool!!
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Old 5th July 2006, 04:27 PM   #7
rdf is offline rdf  Canada
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Quote:
Originally posted by maxro
I own three DIY fixed gear frames myself. But, I would not describe them as "relaxed" bikes to ride.
Depends how you build them and where you live I suppose. Gear for recovery spinning on relatively flat terrain, retain the front brake and I found them wonderful.

Re: aluminum, no direct experience but I thought they've finally tamed it. Is that more market speak than reality? My one aluminum is an early 90's Cannondale crit and it's a jackhammer. To bribe myself back to the saddle I'm thinking buying new steel and converting the 'Dale into fixed #3.
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Old 5th July 2006, 05:05 PM   #8
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OK, looks like I'll be staying with steel. Carbon would be nice, but a single crash could destroy it or cause hidden damage that could fail later and kill me. Titanium would be nice but I doubt if I could afford/justify it. And aluminium isn't even to be thought of if it's still unforgiving and prone to fatigue.

I've had two frames break under me, three handlebars and three cranks. And all this with a BMI of 22.9, although I will admit that they were all single-speed bikes and they do get a bit stressed when pulling away at traffic lights.
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Old 5th July 2006, 06:50 PM   #9
Variac is offline Variac  United States
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From the looks of your chainring I'm guessing that it is pretty flat where you live!

Not so here in San Francisco.

Steel is still very viable- I'd spend some pleasurable time googling custom frame shops and contacting them about a steel frame.

Dave Yates is a brit that seems interesting:

www.daveyatescycles.co.uk

He can use 853 or the new stainless 953 Reynolds tubing as soon as its actually available... but more important - he knows what good for you- and it might not be the latest trendy stuff!!

He also has a frame building course where you make your own frame at his shop! DIY bike - how appropriate!

He's in Lincolnshire is that close?

Consider Chorus. Exactly the same as Record but no titanium bits. Still has lots (too much?) carbon bits and as durable. More like $1000 for a gruppo.
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Old 5th July 2006, 07:13 PM   #10
SY is offline SY  United States
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Quote:
From the looks of your chainring I'm guessing that it is pretty flat where you live!
They have an interesting idea of what a "hill" is.
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