If an intelligent designer really had the omniscience to tap into this thread, surely he/she/it would motivate you all to abandon this quixotic use of an audio forum to discover lifes origins. Please. Can everyone just finish off their last-call, put the glass down, and bid one and all a good life? Just say your last and let it rest - for the love of (fill in as appropriate).
You are not alone, but access is - as i understand - rather restricted.
I used to be a fossil hound in germany - what a place for paleaontology - and no restrictions on collecting on public land.
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But one should not forget the royal tyrell museum in alberta - not the museum alone, but the setting it is in.
audio-kraut said:
You don’t get to define truth according to your intellect, either it's true or it's not. Truth is far superior to your understanding, it is a thing (entity), not an idea. You must obey it or suffer.
What is your idea of the meaning of life? Can you’re construct make any more sense then mine? I feel confident my general plan of purpose can easily stand up to any specific recent theory of heartless details of such. Wanna try
Again, just my strong opinion, don’t get offended.
KD
audio-kraut said:
It is... somehoe DNA came to have a huge amount of "intelligence"* built in -- we are only starting to scratch the surface of how much
*(i use intelligence here as defined by T Leary)
dave
audio-kraut said:
I grew up 50 miles north of there.... at the time the centre of oil production in Alberta.
dave
Prune said:
Historically, the views of the pope...popery.....etc....are often not to be relied upon for anything of merit......
Indeed, catholicism is just organised crime in cloaked in religious garb....
The 'Big bang' is in fact the position held by the Bible....see Isaiah...
There really is nothing new under the sun.....
No I don't get offended. Regarding whatever meaning you want to find in live - that is your personal quest - but not mine.
As Bill Fitzpatrick said - you yourself give your life meaning.
I only get offended when biology with all its branches - and biology does make little sense without evolution as the driving force for diversification and complexity - gets treated in a cavalier manner by people who call themselves scientists who for the most part collect a grab bag of misunderstood criticisms from within the biological scientific community or purport outright lies, misstatements etc.
And when those falsehoods are then picked up unexamined by their followers and used to denigrate science per se.
One should not forget that all science is a continuum. When falsehoods are allowed to be cast against one of its branches, it affects all others eventually.
kingdaddy said:
That is a good question, and still unanswered... some would say that it is proof of a superior being -- it may be, but as applied in many religious contexts wishful thinking.
From what has been learned by those studying complexity (aka chaos) theory in the last 40 yeas or so, it is not at all unbelievable that such an intelligence could arise purely out of the complex... matter of fact some indicators in complexity theory say that it is inevitable.... no higher being required.
Belief in the need for a higher being gets you into a loop spiralling ever upward with no end... if there is a higher being how did they come to be?
dave
Dave, it's turtles all the way down.
Actually, complexity and organization do arise spontaneously, otherwise we'd have to invoke miracles to explain snowflakes.
Actually, complexity and organization do arise spontaneously, otherwise we'd have to invoke miracles to explain snowflakes.
I hope that doesn't date you... once upon a time, now the centre moved to fort mc murray big time - and to our gasfields where i reside.
kingdaddy said:
Jacob Bronowski -- "The Ascent of Man" -- a wonderful series put on by PBS decades ago -- if you can beg, borrow or steal a DVD or VCR tape this is a series which puts much into context.
one should just look at some mandelbrot fractal pictures once in a while, and how fractal geometry can with a fairly simple recursive formula describe complex shapes.
What most people seem to expect from religion is the confirmation of the "special status" of humans in the natural world, giving it through its special status an elevated position above the rest of beings, and permits them through this special position to have guaranteed an "afterlife".
This would not pose a problem to the well being and survivability of our not so conscious brethren, would the privileges that come with that special status be counterbalanced by responsibilities.
This can lead to dehumanization of the one who is not a follower - as clearly stated by one Israeli spokesman - as an example - who spouted the now official line that palestinian lives are clearly - they belonging to the gentiles - inferior to israeli lives and do not deserve the same consideration.
Now - allmost all religions do the same - the denial of the right of the other to the same treatment the followers of ones faith deserve.
And that is why I find religion outright dangerous.
I also find that - when it comes to the crunch - all previous statements regarding tolerance towards others - get rather fast abandonded.
This crunch usually occurs when the relogious fraction suddenly finds itself in a position of power or the position to influence power.
Present examples not excluded.
This would not pose a problem to the well being and survivability of our not so conscious brethren, would the privileges that come with that special status be counterbalanced by responsibilities.
This can lead to dehumanization of the one who is not a follower - as clearly stated by one Israeli spokesman - as an example - who spouted the now official line that palestinian lives are clearly - they belonging to the gentiles - inferior to israeli lives and do not deserve the same consideration.
Now - allmost all religions do the same - the denial of the right of the other to the same treatment the followers of ones faith deserve.
And that is why I find religion outright dangerous.
I also find that - when it comes to the crunch - all previous statements regarding tolerance towards others - get rather fast abandonded.
This crunch usually occurs when the relogious fraction suddenly finds itself in a position of power or the position to influence power.
Present examples not excluded.
Bluebeards friend here again......."Present examples, not excluded". Right On!
I'm with Bill and audio-kraut. Living life is the meaning of life. If all the people who believed in the hereafter and acted accordingly, it would be a perfect world.
I was schooled in the Catholic religion for nine years and as I acquired reason, the illogical aspects of it made me feel hipocritical so I listened to my heart and head. I've come to the conclusion that Religion is the single most evil of the world. What has been done just in my lifetime, in the name of God, is horrific.
I believe that all we question, has happened before and will repeat itself again and again.
Like audio-kraut stated........Creation and distruction, again and again.......Toni
It's very hard to find a group such as you all to discuss something like this and I find it refreshing.
I'm with Bill and audio-kraut. Living life is the meaning of life. If all the people who believed in the hereafter and acted accordingly, it would be a perfect world.
I was schooled in the Catholic religion for nine years and as I acquired reason, the illogical aspects of it made me feel hipocritical so I listened to my heart and head. I've come to the conclusion that Religion is the single most evil of the world. What has been done just in my lifetime, in the name of God, is horrific.
I believe that all we question, has happened before and will repeat itself again and again.
Like audio-kraut stated........Creation and distruction, again and again.......Toni
It's very hard to find a group such as you all to discuss something like this and I find it refreshing.
audio-kraut said:
Great example! Just take a simple formula like x3= 1, and look for the roots on the complex plane using a simple Newton-Raphson recursion. By plotting which root different initial points converge to, you get a profound complexity, not at all the simple boundaries one might naively expect.
After monumental effort by Deep Thought The Meaning of Life and such was found to be 42... 😉Bill Fitzpatrick said:
Billions years of experience of perpetual interaction.
It often occurs to me that quite a huge proportion of human race has no idea of nor have ever thought of large numbers. Its just a number to them. Its easy to construct a number whose meaning completely defies comprehension, its even been used in this very thread to "prove" necessity of god.
Well, bad news to many. Human brain is not capable of comprehending numbers beyond million. Yes, we can use them, but not comprehend. After some value it just becomes playground of numbers or more likely orders of magnitude without attachment to their core essence.
Billion years is uncomprehensibly huge span of time. Think about it, take it abit more seriously.
Good example of not comprehending the meaning of infinite. Infinite does not mean repeating.
Oh, friend, there are zillions of groups discussing it over and over again.
eg. http://www.physicsforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=7 if you don't care for your time.
Well, pay attention. 😉audio-kraut said:
What bluebeard's friend expressed is one commonly entertained outlook that everything repeats ad infinitum, perhaps with minute differences. This is a philosophy of its own. Its limited by human imagination and necessity for mind comfort. I just noted that belief in that is not warranted, hinting that its not good to stay at that belief for very long.
If I misunderstood bluebeard's friend then I apologize.
I do agree with his "other" conclusion strongly, and most of your points, btw.
No. Thats misused semantics and context. But lets not digress. Matter of infinite might by itself lead to long arguing.
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