Aviation is one of the most serious environmental risks - diyAudio
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Old 5th July 2004, 11:35 PM   #1
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Default Aviation is one of the most serious environmental risks

the Stockholm Environment institute says so.

this is in part due to tax breaks for airlines and fuels, as well as proliferation of cheap discount airlines in Europe: if journeys of less than 400 miles are carried out by trains (which are widely available in Europe), the # of flights in Europe can be reduced by almost half.

one of its co-authors commented that at the moment Europeans have cheap flights and some of the most expensive railways in the world. That is the wrong way around. one of the solutions is to raise airfares to pay fully for the environmental damages caused by flights.

Before that, all environmentally concerned EU citizens are encouraged to voluntarily double their fares to send a message to the airlines and to help the environment.
 
Old 6th July 2004, 09:10 AM   #2
roibm is offline roibm  Romania
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look who's talkin'
take care of your own mess would you?
tell us now who flies more... who rides more often the train, how about the railroads(eu vs us)
 
Old 6th July 2004, 11:28 AM   #3
roibm is offline roibm  Romania
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How abour some "refreshments":

Some headlines:
- Air Freight is Fastest Growing Segment of U.S. Cargo Economy; New Study Tracks Trends in $29 Billion Dollar-A-Day Cargo Industry
- BTS Releases March Airline Traffic Data; March 2004 Domestic Traffic Up 7.4 Percent From March 2003

Some facts:
- System Mileage Within the United States (Statute miles)(1960: 207,334Mi; 2001: 128,495Mi)
- U.S. Passenger-Miles (Millions) (1960: Air - 33,399 Mi Rail - 17,064Mi; 2001: Air - 502,359Mi Rail - 5,559Mi). Should I add the highway too?
- Principal Means of Transportation to Work (Thousands)(1985: Automobile - 86.5% Public transportation - 5.1%; 2001: Automobile - 87.8% Public transportation - 4.7%)

Have fun, would ya?
 
Old 6th July 2004, 11:36 AM   #4
SY is offline SY  United States
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I rather like the European train experience, but am aware that it's extremely uneconomical- it needs heavy subsidy (i.e., transfer of assets at the point of a gun from the productive to the unproductive) to make it work. And while it's fine if you're going from, say, Paris to Marseilles, it gets pretty hairy if you want to go from, say, Lyon to Vienna. The latter trip is an hour by air, but nearly 10 hours by train, with two changes and tight connections which can turn it into a two-day trip.

The reality is that the air is getting cleaner, at least here in the US. I'm skeptical about the claims of horrible ecological damage wreaked by airplanes. I wonder if it's a mutation of the "chem-trails" hoax so popular among US conspiracy theorists?
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Old 6th July 2004, 12:45 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by roibm
look who's talkin'
take care of your own mess would you?
tell us now who flies more... who rides more often the train, how about the railroads(eu vs us)
OK. so it is environmentally horrible to burn a few watts running class a amps but it is just fine to ruin our skies?

Thanks, roobbies, for your neo environmental thinking.

 
Old 6th July 2004, 12:48 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by roibm
How abour some "refreshments":

Have fun, would ya?
looking who's talking? ha?

Can you just take care of your own mess before telling us what to do?

In the mean time, we will continue to run our class a amps, drive our big SUVs, and drop our bombs wherever we feel like it. and you cannot do a thing about it. ha!

BTW, I much like your new signature. It is cool.
 
Old 6th July 2004, 12:53 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by SY
I rather like the European train experience, but am aware that it's extremely uneconomical-
Boeing and Airbus have done extensive research into the transportation systems in Europe and their views are available in their market outlook for Europe, as well as some big name aerospace players (Royce Rolls and Bombardier for example). the concensus seems to be that it is a matter of time for the EU names to rely more heavily on air travel. and reduce rail traffic. Thus the popularity of European discount airlines.

The environmental research is I think timed to counter that.
 
Old 6th July 2004, 04:28 PM   #8
Lusso5 is offline Lusso5  United States
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Default How Ironic...

As I'm reading this, I get an e-mail of photos of the Airbus A380-900. It will be the largest commercial airliner ever built. Carrying 656 passengers in three classes and 840 in one class/charter. They have reportedly not been able to meet their weight targets, (by many tons) so the efficiency estimates will fall short - way short I suspect.

All this from Airbus - the great Euro-aerospace corporation that gets bailed out of bad business descisions by the French and German taxpayers, on an as-needed basis.

Enjoy your new behemoth roibm - you've payed well for it.
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Old 6th July 2004, 04:31 PM   #9
Lusso5 is offline Lusso5  United States
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Didnt notice the image-post feature on here... Is it disabled in the "Off topic"?

All I see is the attachment...
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Old 6th July 2004, 05:31 PM   #10
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Default Re: How Ironic...

Quote:
Originally posted by Lusso5
As I'm reading this, I get an e-mail of photos of the Airbus A380-900.
Airbus distributed a multi-media presentation on a cd-rom for the then A3xx a few years back (around 2000 as I recall) to aerospace analyst. It is pretty amazing the amount of engineering that goes into.

There are two distinct views on the A380: one was that Boeing tricked Airbus into building that A380 and it will be the end of Airbus: having designed and almost went bankruptc for the 747, Boeing should know that's into such a plane.

The counter PoV is that the A380 will break Boeing's dominance in the trans-oceanic traffic (transatlantic and transpacific), and propel Airbus into the leadership position, much as the 747 did to Boeing: these days, the air traffic growth is mostly in Asia (more precisely to and from Asia).

Boein is getting a lot of traction for the 7E7 and banking its future (for long range craft anyway) on that platform.
 

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