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Old 4th July 2004, 01:18 AM   #1
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Default that piece of German engineering

JD Power just finished its long-term dependability survey.

the germans continue to suffer. Of the the four German manufacturers, none leads any of the 17 catagories. and two of them fell below industry average, and trail such names like GM and Ford.

VW, notably, is in the company of Hyundai, Isuzu, Daewoo, and Kia.

the only German brands that scored above average are Porsche and BMW (barely above average). Porsche has been the most consistent player of the four in terms of quality.

no wonder they have to offer iDrive to keep their customers focused on things other than quality,
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Old 6th July 2004, 07:02 PM   #2
Lusso5 is offline Lusso5  United States
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While my modified Golf 1.8T was still one of my favorite cars, it was not without fault. I'm still thinking of getting a TDI when the 2005s hit; Its about time to retire my current work vehicle.

Your post made me laugh though, and dig up this old pic someone sent me. The cars may be designed by fine German engineers, but they're assembled by these guys:
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Old 6th July 2004, 08:33 PM   #3
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Originally posted by Lusso5
The cars may be designed by fine German engineers, but they're assembled by these guys:

I thought that Golf is built in Germany and only the Jetta is out of Mexico.

Well, VW is doing very well in China. So well, as a matter of fact that they had their last annual meeting in Shanghai. so pretty soon, we will be driving China-made VWs.

BTW, I am on my 2nd set of brakes / rotors for my BMW, a year into its ownership. Good I just returned my Audi.
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Old 6th July 2004, 09:46 PM   #4
Lusso5 is offline Lusso5  United States
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North American VWs are made in:

Brazil: Golf & GTI

Mexico: Beetle, Jetta sedan

Germany: Phaeton, Passats, Jetta wagon

Slovakia: Touareg


The new Golf V (2005) I hear is going to be made in Mexico though. From what I hear, that is where the worst of the problems come from.

What kind of BMWs/Audis have you owned? I've thrown a few E36s and A4s around the track. If I didnt log so many miles, I'd likely buy a good E36.
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Old 6th July 2004, 10:18 PM   #5
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Originally posted by Lusso5
What kind of BMWs/Audis have you owned?

I have a 2003 330 and had a 2001/2 a6 2.7t. the bmw has been relatively stable, other than the brakes. the other fault is its navigation system: it failed go guide us back from DC to NYC, and it couldn't find my friend's house in DC. I guess it is in part due to the map not being updated as frequently.

the audi is another story all together: leaky sunroof, electric malfunction (it would lose radio statations randomly), sudden shifts in transmission, and burnt bulbs. our dealer also didn't exactly provide the best service. a co-worker has an allroad and its sensors went off during the coldest spills we had last year. Luckily the car continued to function.

Saw a C32 AMG the other day. a beautiful looking car. very tempting.
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Old 7th July 2004, 01:05 AM   #6
Magura is offline Magura  Denmark
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Quote:
Originally posted by millwood


the audi is another story all together: leaky sunroof, electric malfunction (it would lose radio statations randomly), sudden shifts in transmission, and burnt bulbs.

You forgot to mention the price of the bulbs for the headlight of an Audi A6.....in Denmark they set you back a little more than 200 USD a piece

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Old 7th July 2004, 02:39 AM   #7
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You forgot to mention the price of the bulbs for the headlight of an Audi A6.....in Denmark they set you back a little more than 200 USD a piece

Magura
mine had hid headlights. they last practically forever. But if they do break for whatever reasons, I am sure my lovely audi dealer wouldn't be hesitant charging me.
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Old 7th July 2004, 10:54 AM   #8
dhaen is offline dhaen  Europe
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Default Credit where credit is due...

My VW Passat had wonderful build quality, made in Germany I think, and ran for nearly 100,000 miles before it's only failure (a sensor).
My Audi TT seems of equal quality and is made in Hungary. It's only done 12,000 miles so far, but I'm not expecting problems.

My opinion of UK available products' build quality:

1. German (VW, Audi, BMW etc)
2. Japanese (Toyota, Nissan, Honda etc)
3. European/scandinavian (Volvo, Peugeot, Seat etc)
4. European/US (Ford, GM etc)
5. Far East (Kia, Hyundai etc)

I think this probably shared by many people here in the UK.

Of course manufacturers occasionally disgrace themselves with an epidemic problem they try to cover up, eg VW ignition coils. Fortunately mine was a diesel.
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Old 7th July 2004, 12:13 PM   #9
SY is offline SY  United States
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dhaen, I've also got a Passat, non-diesel. VW US has taken the opposite stance here regarding the ignition coils- I must have gotten a dozen cards and letters from them urging me to bring the car in. This despite the fact that my car was apparently made in a production run following their correction of the problem.

FWIW, I've got two Mazdas ('91 RX7 convertable and '93 Miata) which have over 150,000 miles each with no sever problems, either. I keep hearing that so-called American cars have overcome their quality and reliability issues, but I'm not exactly panting to find out for myself.
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Old 7th July 2004, 01:41 PM   #10
Lusso5 is offline Lusso5  United States
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My Golf was a 2001, and I went 60k with no ignition coil failures. I must have missed the bad run as well.

Did you get the letter from the class-action lawsuit, relating to the coil issues? I did. A woman in CA sued VW and won a few cool million set aside so VW owners can make claims pertaining to coil issues (e.g. overnight stays, wrecker service, anything out of pocket).

Regarding a build-quality list, I would have to put Toyota/Lexus and Honda/Acura at the top; from personal and the experience of others, not to mention the stats.
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