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Old 2nd July 2004, 07:00 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bas Horneman

True...but the meat-industry is very inefficient. 80% of all grain in the world goes to feed cows.
but what alternative do we have? if we killed off the cows, would we humans have to eat more or less grain to get the same amount of nutrients?

sounds to me the current arrangement of cow eating grain and people eating cows is just the nature's way of specialization.

Quote:
Originally posted by roibm
if the americana would not drive their private cars, their own oil would be enough, so no need for wars etc.(at least for now).

we aren't going to drive small cars, and we will continue to have wars. and there is nothing you can do about it.

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Old 2nd July 2004, 07:48 PM   #12
roibm is offline roibm  Romania
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Quote:
Originally posted by millwood
we aren't going to drive small cars, and we will continue to have wars. and there is nothing you can do about it.
I know you will continue to make wars. Usually it helps your economy a great deal, so what would be the reason not to do it?
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Old 3rd July 2004, 07:16 AM   #13
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Nope again. It is not what I wanted.
Aaahh now I understand...People start talking in other threads about you signature. And you want them to do it here.
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Old 3rd July 2004, 10:48 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by roibm

I know you will continue to make wars. Usually it helps your economy a great deal, so what would be the reason not to do it?

precisely. and you aren't going to change the least bit of it, no matter how hard you try.

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Old 3rd July 2004, 11:47 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by millwood
precisely. and you aren't going to change the least bit of it, no matter how hard you try.
If the average joe the american thinks like you(which I very much doubt), there is no point in not hating the americana(and their arrogance).
If they aren't, you don't count anyway.
So you see, you lose either way.
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Old 3rd July 2004, 01:15 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by roibm
So you see, you lose either way.

whatever you say, we will still drive our big cars and fight our wars wherever we like and whenever we like.

and you cannot do a thing about it.

i love the way it is.

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Old 3rd July 2004, 06:45 PM   #17
roibm is offline roibm  Romania
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Hey millwood, TAFL, go walk the bear, or whatever else, your posts are redundant.
I already know you can't do better
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Old 3rd July 2004, 08:21 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by millwood



whatever you say, we will still drive our big cars and fight our wars wherever we like and whenever we like.

and you cannot do a thing about it.

i love the way it is.

This is exactly the way of thinking that feeds my unwanted anti americanism sentiments ( that I try to get rid of nevertheless ). The day I forget them stereotypes always find their way unfortunately.

I just saw a very good documentary about oil shortages in 2010. It seems the politicians and scientists did not take rising China enough in account. Over there 5000 NEW cars are sold *daily* that need petrol together with the vast amount if used cars that go there. So it turns out world stock will be finished in 40 years from now. First problems ( absurd high prices like we pay here for example ) will occur worldwide in 2010. Needless to say that the world will look different then. Just imagine how different when one does not invest enough in hydrogen etc. like the more future minded countries, companies and governments.

We can not do a thing about it, you'll do it yourselves. The Romans never thought their empire would seize to exist too.

BTW Again the ridiculous hype for driving truck-engined MPVs, jeeps and hummers etc. was discussed and apart from their absurdly high petrol consumption they add significantly to the death numbers in accidents because of their size and shape. Governments will try to convince car manufacturers to produce less power consuming cars in the very near future ( at least in Europe ). Calculations did proove that when smaller more environmental-friendly cars would be used by the majority the world oil stock will last significantly longer at much lower prices. So it is our own behaviour ( as individuals, not only the industry ) that has a great influence on the future. Please let's not complain the day we want to fill up our Hummers and the last drop is gone.
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Old 3rd July 2004, 08:48 PM   #19
roibm is offline roibm  Romania
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JPaul, don't expect millwood to realize or care about any of the upcoming problems. he lives just on the instant.
As about the oil problems, most of the people don't realize that an oil related problem is not only when the oil is not available anymore or very scarce.
Considering our economy which is based 100% on oil(without oil there will be no economy, nothing, nada), A demand ~20% higher than the suppy would be disastrous. All prices would explode, the way of life as we know it will no longer be. And millwood will not be able to do anything about it. Beside, guess who will be shaken the most.

Anyway, the time to seriously research is very limited, and the big oil players make a lot of lobby against, for obvious reasons. I wonder how much could have this 150bil+(spent for nothing) helped such a research.
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Old 3rd July 2004, 09:00 PM   #20
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Hi Roibm, in that same program some very nice solutions by the largest oil or energy companies,as they recently want to be called, were demonstrated. Particularly Shell has invested a lot in compact hydrogen fuel cells. The lobby against investments in other sources of energy is over as they must change their source of income due to unexpected earlier change of scenario. General Motors, of course not an energy company, is the second large player on the hydrogen fuel call market/research ladder.

There was a system shown that was about using hydrogen cells not only to power cars but houses as well. Back to decentralized power generation it seems. Pro and contra people were given time to do their talk but after all it had a high solution factor for the big problems we will face. I hadn't realized before that for creating hydrogen always other energy is needed unlike the reasonably efficient production of oil and derivatives. Some countries proposed nuclear power to create hydrogen but luckily that was not the concensus

Also some non 100% oil dependant countries were given as example how solutions can be found and at what prices.
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