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Old 4th May 2004, 04:21 PM   #11
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I actually bothered to read the ExxonMobil report on one of these sites.
From that report it is clear that there is NOTHING..ZERO..ZILCH to worry about wrt to energy.

Thank God for that. Now I can go back worrying about REAL concerns that are actually already happening such as half the world not having enough to eat.

(Luckily you are helping there Sy.) Since you don't eat meat. If we all became vegetarians there would be enough food for the world...(Currently 80% of the worlds grain and maize is used for producing animal proteďns of which they use (the animals) 10% of the energy value...the rest they crap out) Talk about efficiency!!!
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Old 4th May 2004, 04:43 PM   #12
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roibm: If you allow an inflation adjustment tied to a cost-of-living index for the US or Europe (your choice) and put the bet in US dollars, you've got a deal.

The Euro is a new currency that's been volatile, and there are lots of changes in the composition of the EU. The dollar has been around for a while and the US is not adding states. I'll bet on the dollar. I will not bet on the Euro.
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Old 4th May 2004, 04:49 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by roibm

We consider 1000EUR and we se how many liters oil we could buy with them today. In ten years we will consider how many liters we will be able to buy with this amount.
I'd use another means of comparison, at the rate you are taxed in the EU, that might buy you a few liters and no more in 10 years.

Refining a barrel of oil has the same production difficulty everywhere in the world. Yet, your price per gallon is ~€4.30. I paid €1.50 per gallon yesterday for 93 octane! On top of that, about 45% of that cost is tax! Actual distributor selling price before taxation on a gallon of gas would be ~€.83!

Let's round down because you most likely have higher labor & transportation cost for the refining. I would wager though that at least ~€3.00 per gallon goes to your government as tax.

I cannot believe that you stand for it in the EU.

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Old 4th May 2004, 05:11 PM   #14
SY is offline SY  United States
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I'd use another means of comparison, at the rate you are taxed in the EU, that might buy you a few liters and no more in 10 years.
My assumption is the price of the commodity, just like the Ehrlich/Simon wager. Lord knows what the US taxes will be like then, either.
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Old 4th May 2004, 05:12 PM   #15
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We pay 1,299 euro per *liter* !! I saw a program about the american elections last week where politicians promised to keep prices low. This is predicted to be a spearhead in the upcoming elections because a raise in petrol price will not be accepted by the majority of the people ( that's what they illustrated with interviews ).

They did good research and calculated if the american population would drive european style cars ( 2 liter engines max. ) they would not need to import any oil at all.... So american produced oil would suffice, no Iraqi petrol station required !

Not wanting to judge another people or country but I 've come to think that american care for the environment/future is plain ridiculous or to put it more mildly : short term politics.
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Old 4th May 2004, 05:23 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by roibm
We consider 1000EUR and we se how many liters oil we could buy with them today. In ten years we will consider how many liters we will be able to buy with this amount.
If in 10 years it will be possible to buy more liters, I will give you 500EUR, otherwise you will give me 500EUR.
(considering the current value of EUR)

Deal?
you don't think the above "test" is foundamentally flawed and doesn't answer your question?

Let me know if you truly think so.
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Old 4th May 2004, 06:28 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by millwood
you don't think the above "test" is foundamentally flawed and doesn't answer your question?
Let me know if you truly think so.
Shock, horror...
Sorry Click the image to open in full size.wood, I didn't know your name is SY
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Old 4th May 2004, 06:31 PM   #18
roibm is offline roibm  Romania
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Quote:
Originally posted by SY
roibm: If you allow an inflation adjustment tied to a cost-of-living index for the US or Europe (your choice) and put the bet in US dollars, you've got a deal.
Using USD as currency I would agree...
But adjustment on cost-of-living when almost everything depends on oil?
Give me some links so I can understand better wha is this cost-of-living index.
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Old 4th May 2004, 06:42 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by jean-paul
We pay 1,299 euro per *liter* !!

.....I 've come to think that american care for the environment/future is plain ridiculous or to put it more mildly : short term politics.
€1.299/L = €5.00/gallon = Gack! Why do you tolerate this robbery?

You should come visit here and speak with more people about our concern for the environment. I'm 43; recycling and enviromental responisibility were part of my education going back 35 years. Nearly every urban community in the US recycles today.

In addition, you 've got blue skies over Los Angeles when they used to be smog-choked 365 days a year. Songbirds not seen for 3 decades have returned in New England and you can swim in the Charles river in Boston. In the past, high levels of PCB's, toulene, and other manufacturing wastes were evident. The US is cleaner now than it has been for decades. Can you say the same about all EU member states?

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Old 4th May 2004, 06:49 PM   #20
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recycling and enviromental responisibility were part of my education going back 35 years. Nearly every urban community in the US recycles today.
Penn and Teller just did a wonderful show on recycling.


Quote:
Give me some links so I can understand better wha is this cost-of-living index.
There are quite a few ways of adjusting it. One way is tying the dollar value to another commodity, like gold. There are several other possible indexes. I'll dig up a list of a few, and let you choose one that sounds fairest to you.

EDIT: When I get home this evening, I'll look up the formula that Ehrlich and Simon agreed on for pegging the dollar. I'll say in advance of knowing what that is that it would be acceptable to me.
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