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Old 18th April 2004, 10:19 AM   #21
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History will always repeat itself as humans don't change.
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Old 18th April 2004, 10:21 AM   #22
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I donīt agree with you. Some humans change and become always better. Some donīt because they refuse to or donīt want to learn. So the problem is that some people have to pay for the stupid mistakes of others.
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Old 18th April 2004, 10:22 AM   #23
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That's right in a way. However history learns us that the high civilisations of yesterday can be the low civilisations of tomorrow. I doubt if a certain people really can change and always become "better" when I look to the situation of the world today.
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Old 21st April 2004, 12:48 AM   #24
Hans L is offline Hans L  Netherlands
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Your apparent limited knowledge of Balcan history doesn't warrant your judgemental attitude towards promitheus or 'the Greek'.

On a side note: That reminds of a few weeks ago when I stumbled out of the cinema after whatching 'The Passion of Christ'. that movie left me with a profound feeling of how little has changed in 2000 years.
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Old 21st April 2004, 07:05 AM   #25
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well I understand Jean Paul.

The human nature can be very barbaric. It doesnīt matter how civilized or how far our technology is, we humans are capable of doing very bad things at times and its hard to believe that we ever change to better.
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Old 21st April 2004, 12:16 PM   #26
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I am glad to see that despite our totally opposite opinions we can agree 100 % on this, Promitheus. Sorry that discussion became a bit harsh. You should know that I can understand your opinion and the historical facts you brought up. More than once I discussed these matters with turkish people from more or less your angle. It's nice to hear both sides if it weren't for the fanatical way those discussions grow most of the time.

Best regards,

Jean-Paul


Hans L, both sides were rather judgemental. My knowledge of balcan history may be limited in your eyes but we are living in the present and so should we interact with the question of Turkey and the EU. If we keep thinking of the past with for example the german people stereotypes will keep controlling our minds.
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Old 21st April 2004, 01:40 PM   #27
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Someone mentioned geography as a possible problem for Turkey. One has to be aware that turkey is belonging to both continents Europe AND Asia.

If island states adjacent to Europe qualify for getting members, even Connecticut might qualify if you'd dig a trench. I don't know how wide and deep however. But I am sure that there must be some European standards for that, some hundred pages thick !

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Old 21st April 2004, 03:45 PM   #28
Hans L is offline Hans L  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally posted by jean-paul
...but we are living in the present and so should we interact with the question of Turkey and the EU. If we keep thinking of the past with for example the german people stereotypes will keep controlling our minds.
I agree with you on 'living in the present'. But history cannot always be wiped out that fast.

Cheers.
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Old 22nd April 2004, 04:17 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by phase_accurate
Someone mentioned geography as a possible problem for Turkey.
Yes, it was the person I was talking to elsewhere which inspired me to bring up the question here.



Quote:
Originally posted by phase_accurate
If island states adjacent to Europe qualify for getting members, even Connecticut might qualify if you'd dig a trench. I don't know how wide and deep however.
LOL, you certainly know your US geography! Connecticut, third smallest state in the US, geographically. Maybe you want to consider us and adjoining Rhode Island, (smallest geographic state) in a buy-one-get-one-free deal.
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Old 23rd April 2004, 03:39 AM   #30
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Hi,

Quote:
Yes, it was the person I was talking to elsewhere which inspired me to bring up the question here.
The geographical situation of Turkey is no problem whatsoever to join the EU.
If that were to be the case they wouldn't even bother to ask to join in the first place.

Neither is the fact that most Turks are Muslim, that would be discrimination on the part of the EU and it clearly stipulates it doesn't discriminate on that basis to refuse membership.

The main argument however is that country's disrespect for the human rights, mostly against the Kurdish people.

What a lot of EU members fear is a spoiled trade due to cheap labour done in former Eastblock countries and a crash of prices of their own quality product as a result of this with quite a few companies folding already because of this economic pressure.

However these countries will have to gear up and heavily invest in new tooling etc. to meet stringent QC within the EU and it is therefore viewed as a short term anomaly that will settle within a few years after these countries have joined.

Cheap labour will disappear and quality of product should be more or less the same regardless of origin within the EU.
This is basically the expression of concern by the local farmers and associated traders within the EU today.

Other trades will face other problems but major companies are already well introduced on the market within the boundaries of the new members to be such as Poland, Slovenia, Litvania etc.

As far as labour exchange and freedom to work whereover one likes within the EU, there's is indeed a lot of political noise regarding this as each member wants to protect its social funds against profiteering but regulation is taking shape here as well.

One thing's for sure, we're not out the woods yet...

Cheers,
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