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Old 19th January 2016, 05:38 AM   #1
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Default Don't kill the messenger!

So...I needed an 8 in 8 out digitally controlled analog volume pot for a 4 way horn speaker I am working on, so I bought a few year old Yamaha reciever for 50 bucks on CL with the intent of using multi direct in then out the pre-outs to my brace of Bryston, Adcom, and upper end Crown power amps. I thought "what the hell, lets see how this Yamaha unit soundz power amp wise while I am back here.

Sonofabitch! The truth is we have reached power amp parity and then some. And this is a unit from 2005. True I am using it for high efficiency 4 way horns, but here is the kicker. It has NO problem at all with my watt hog reference Matrix 801s hooked to zone two.

My conclusion? Obsessing over amp design is just an academic excursion. I am dead certain of this. The two Brystons etc will not be going back in the rack. Ever. Now I see why the action is over at the chip amp section, not that this is quite that, but still........
Don't shoot!
If you are curious its # RX V657, best 50 bucks I have ever spent outside of Thailand.
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Last edited by peteleoni; 19th January 2016 at 05:49 AM.
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Old 19th January 2016, 06:57 AM   #2
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Some people say you can hear the difference between amps, but whether anyone can actually discern between amps with 0.00x% distortion in a double blind test is another thing altogether. That is why I use chip amps, because I know I cannot hear any difference. (My ears are not golden, despite the acuity of my hearing.)
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Old 19th January 2016, 10:11 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peteleoni View Post
......My conclusion? Obsessing over amp design is just an academic excursion. I am dead certain of this.
not-sure-if-troll.png

Dan.
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Old 19th January 2016, 01:18 PM   #4
SY is offline SY  United States
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Pete, you have a lovely demonstration here of what happens when you say something which challenges faith-based audio. Don't do that again!
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Old 19th January 2016, 02:18 PM   #5
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Burn the heretic!
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Old 19th January 2016, 02:26 PM   #6
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I have also that one. And its an interesting solution for an active system.

If you have the chance, try to hook some regular speakers up to a pair of that multi ins and then to a power amp. Compare that to a regular 2ch amp to see if there are any magic lost.
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Old 19th January 2016, 02:49 PM   #7
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xx% of distortion is in most speakers. The whole consumer speaker industry ignores distortioin, with sales based mostly on the number of drivers showing. Consumer frequency response quotes are +-10 db if you buy a brand pro enough to even quote a tolerance. Radio Shack used to have a +-20 db "production tolerance" which means ablsolute **** was quoted 20-20000 hz flat response in the literature. I'm serious, I saw the production tolerance quoted in a headphone leaflet. Getting the amp from 0.X% distortion to 0.00x% is an interesing exercise but not productive driving those kind of speakers.
I spend my time here trying to get 0.x% distortion without melting a $150 speaker driver or buying something from the ***-**** orient. I've a collection of mexican TO3 transistors, obsolete GE transistors made in NY state, old junk organs, what can I build? The junk organ power amp is working as of yesterday, playing LP's from my home build mixer and rattling like a worn out refrigerator from the defrost fan Schober cooled the transistors with. The sound is vile through the Schober speaker, and I'm not connecting it to the $600 Peavey +- 3 db 54-14000 hz speakers because there is no protection. The Schober power amp has to be the world's stupidist, but it still works at 30 years of age. XX% distortion, transformer coupling between stages but direct connection of the transistors to the speaker to melt your drivers' if the fan fails.
The all npn modification of AX6 did not work, that was the story of winter 2014-15. I have the pnp-npn version of AX6 about 80% constructed. **** pnp transistors come from malaysia, I couldn't do without them. Anybody speak mandarin? At least On semi datasheets are in a language I can read.
Why don't we all just move to the orient, breath grey air, drink poison water, get beat up occasionally if we open our mouths, have our houses knocked down by the county council because they sold it to somebody rich. Work for $1 an hour unless we are someone's important son. It is the future of us all if we keep buying every **** thing imported from the Lords of commerce. Yamaha yamaha yamaha yamaha yamaha yamaha yamaha yamaha yamaha yamaha I'm sick of it. I won't even sing at church anymore the equipment is all yamaha and so are 90% of the other churches around here.
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Last edited by indianajo; 19th January 2016 at 03:03 PM.
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Old 19th January 2016, 02:58 PM   #8
AKN is offline AKN  Sweden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indianajo View Post
xx% of distortion is in most speakers. The whole consumer speaker industry ignores distortioin, with sales based mostly on the number of drivers showing. Consumer frequency response quotes are +-10 db if you buy a brand pro enough to even quote a tolerance.
Not all consumer speakers. Example: Kef LS50 (and more exists)
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Old 19th January 2016, 06:42 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Viper_user View Post
I have also that one. And its an interesting solution for an active system.

If you have the chance, try to hook some regular speakers up to a pair of that multi ins and then to a power amp. Compare that to a regular 2ch amp to see if there are any magic lost.
That was the test. Matrix 801 with Yamaha reciever and Bryston. Sounds the same even cranked. This is now a dead issue for me. I am not going to "fail" this IQ test.
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Old 19th January 2016, 06:49 PM   #10
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I believe in free trade and have no issues with Asia doing what they do. A lot of mouths to feed, and only free commerce can eventually raise the standard of living. Captalism is not political. It means people get paid to produce.
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