Is it possible to improve a commercial speaker ? - diyAudio
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Old 2nd April 2015, 09:57 AM   #1
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Default Is it possible to improve a commercial speaker ?

Hi
i have always been intrigued by the idea to mod and possibly improved decent commercial units. I see building from the scratch much more challenging.
I have one question that has remained unanswered in the Multi-way forum.
I have a pair of old Tannoy 611 speakers, here below depicted

Click the image to open in full size.

from the specifications i see that in Tannoy they have decided to cross the 8" woofer with the 8" DC at 400 Hz.
I wonder if this is really the best choice
I ask this because i see many 3 ways with cone mid and 1st cut placed at around 150 Hz, lower than in the 611.
I have also a pair of 609 mk II (that uses the same DC as the only driver ) and i prefer the sound from them ... strange isn't it ?
I find the sound coming from the two drivers in the 611 a little disconnected ... like not omogeneous/continuous.
Any opinion would be welcome and appreciated.
Thanks and regards, gino

Last edited by ginetto61; 2nd April 2015 at 10:27 AM.
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Old 2nd April 2015, 10:34 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ginetto61 View Post
...in Tannoy they have decided to cross the 8" woofer with the 8" DC at 400 Hz.
Is the DC driver also HP filtered at 400 Hz? If not, they may be adding in the woofer at that frequency to counteract the baffle step? (Actually, that might work even with the HP filter, if levels & slopes were done correctly...)

-- Jim
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Old 2nd April 2015, 11:04 AM   #3
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Have you measured a problem with these speakers which you want to remedie?
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Old 2nd April 2015, 12:58 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim the Oldbie View Post
Is the DC driver also HP filtered at 400 Hz? If not, they may be adding in the woofer at that frequency to counteract the baffle step? (Actually, that might work even with the HP filter, if levels & slopes were done correctly...)
-- Jim
Hi and thanks for the helpful reply and i see your point
You mean that also the DC could be full range ?
I do not know precisely ... i will try a sweep only on the DC (there is a biwiring option). I will report after that.
Thanks for the hint, gino
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Old 2nd April 2015, 01:03 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by vacuphile View Post
Have you measured a problem with these speakers which you want to remedie?
Hi and actually not. I have not run any measurement.
But i prefer the sound from the simpler 609 that have only the same DC without the woofer. It seems to me that the additional woofer in the 611 is not very well integrated with the sound of the DC.
But maybe as you say it is just an impression. I have to try a sweep separately on the woofer and on the DC.
I have also the feeling that a better woofer would help a lot. A really serious 10" for instance (even if this would mean to build another cabinet completely).
That would be very very interesting.
I have always in mind loudspeaker like this one ...

Click the image to open in full size.

the driver on the top is a coaxial like the DC
Thanks a lot, gino

Last edited by ginetto61; 2nd April 2015 at 01:26 PM.
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Old 2nd April 2015, 02:19 PM   #6
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Ginetto, diagnosis comes before treatment
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Old 2nd April 2015, 02:23 PM   #7
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I just found the schematic for the xover. Sort of standard setup where both bass drivers do bass, and one of them xovered higher also does mid. As Jim mentioned a form of BSC.
Tannoy 611
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Old 2nd April 2015, 02:30 PM   #8
DrDyna is offline DrDyna  United States
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They can most likely be improved..the trick is realizing the difference between a subjective improvement, like giving them a bass bump or more midrange presence..and an objective improvement, like improving driver integration and phase, which you'd probably need measure - tweak - measure - tweak to get right.

The latter, you'd have to be sure the R&D you're prepared to invest exceeds what Tannoy originally did, which may or may not be worth it, considering the absolute sea of high quality drivers available for homebrew.

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Old 2nd April 2015, 03:24 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vacuphile View Post
Ginetto, diagnosis comes before treatment
Hi and yes again. You are very right.
But i have this feeling that something is not ok ... maybe it is only what i eat
No seriously. I like the simpler 609 quite better.
Actually i like the 609 better in general ... i love this little speaker deeply.

Quote:
I just found the schematic for the xover. Sort of standard setup where both bass drivers do bass, and one of them xovered higher also does mid.
As Jim mentioned a form of BSC.
Tannoy 611
I am not sure to understand rightly ... what means BSC ?
Badly Sorted-out Concept ?
What is your opinion ? would you do differently ?

Personally i do not like this arrangement.
I would prefer a real 3 ways and it can be done
i guess. In general i do not like different drivers emitting the same freq.
To each its own
If only i would be better at wood works i know what i had to do.
Sat + bass ... would be a killer combination.
Thanks a lot again, gino
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Old 2nd April 2015, 03:30 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDyna View Post
They can most likely be improved .. the trick is realizing the difference between a subjective improvement, like giving them a bass bump or more midrange presence..and an objective improvement, like improving driver integration and phase, which you'd probably need measure - tweak - measure - tweak to get right.
The latter, you'd have to be sure the R&D you're prepared to invest exceeds what Tannoy originally did, which may or may not be worth it, considering the absolute sea of high quality drivers available for homebrew.
Hi and thanks a lot for the very helpful advice
I cannot help but notice that for the best speakers like the Kingdom Royal Tannoy has decided for a different solution, with a real woofer completing the range in the low
Click the image to open in full size.

i like this solution better. Of course there is no need of this kind of drivers.
Just an honest 10" ... something able to deal with the 50-150 range
It would be a killer speaker.
Thanks again, gino
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