What is the Universe expanding into.. - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Member Areas > The Lounge

The Lounge A place to talk about almost anything but politics and religion.

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 22nd June 2014, 10:16 AM   #1
M Gregg is offline M Gregg  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
M Gregg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: UK
Default What is the Universe expanding into..

Just for interest,

What is the Universe Expanding Into?

And

http://preposterousuniverse.com/writ...imer/dark.html

Regards
M. Gregg
__________________
What is the sound of one hand clapping?

Last edited by M Gregg; 22nd June 2014 at 10:36 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd June 2014, 11:29 AM   #2
Bonsai is offline Bonsai  Taiwan
diyAudio Member
 
Bonsai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Taipei, Taiwan
Should be one for the physicists amongst us to get their teeth into.

__________________
bonsai
Amplifier Design and Construction for MUSIC! http://hifisonix.com/
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd June 2014, 01:55 PM   #3
SY is offline SY  United States
diyAudio Moderator
 
SY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Chicagoland
Blog Entries: 1
We get into that around our sophomore year.

The real takeaway for the lay-folk is that there are questions which can be expressed in grammatically correct English which make no physical sense. We see that a lot here where people want to talk about specific electrons.
__________________
And while they may not be as strong as apes, don't lock eyes with 'em, don't do it. Puts 'em on edge. They might go into berzerker mode; come at you like a whirling dervish, all fists and elbows.
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd June 2014, 02:13 PM   #4
Bonsai is offline Bonsai  Taiwan
diyAudio Member
 
Bonsai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Taipei, Taiwan
So, what is it?

Does space-time beyond the known universe compute to zero since time does not exist (if nothing's happening . . . does time exist?). What are the implications for mass-energy equivalence in the absence of time? I would assume beyond the known universe if would be nice and quiet - no thermal noise out there.

I expect SE to drop in any minute with an explanation
__________________
bonsai
Amplifier Design and Construction for MUSIC! http://hifisonix.com/

Last edited by Bonsai; 22nd June 2014 at 02:17 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd June 2014, 02:27 PM   #5
SY is offline SY  United States
diyAudio Moderator
 
SY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Chicagoland
Blog Entries: 1
I was referring to the first link, not the second. The whole dark matter question is really complex (translation: requires more general relativity and high energy background than I have ).
__________________
And while they may not be as strong as apes, don't lock eyes with 'em, don't do it. Puts 'em on edge. They might go into berzerker mode; come at you like a whirling dervish, all fists and elbows.
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd June 2014, 02:40 PM   #6
Bonsai is offline Bonsai  Taiwan
diyAudio Member
 
Bonsai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Taipei, Taiwan
Well, you're ahead of me on the theory bit!

My simplistic understanding: unless time and energy are present, there is no universe as we know it. So, I have no doubt that the edge of the universe as we know it is where time and energy encroach.
__________________
bonsai
Amplifier Design and Construction for MUSIC! http://hifisonix.com/
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd June 2014, 02:50 PM   #7
SY is offline SY  United States
diyAudio Moderator
 
SY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Chicagoland
Blog Entries: 1
The whole point is that there is no such thing as "the edge of the universe." Grammatically fine, syntax fine, physically meaningless.
__________________
And while they may not be as strong as apes, don't lock eyes with 'em, don't do it. Puts 'em on edge. They might go into berzerker mode; come at you like a whirling dervish, all fists and elbows.
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd June 2014, 03:21 PM   #8
SNR is offline SNR  Canada
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Throughout history very few have had the epiphany required to grasp, let alone or observe space time relationships.

The universe is not expanding, only our view of the universe is expanding. Einstein inadvertently makes this clear in his observations, which interestingly enough have no references.

I'm sorry but Hubble's conclusions are misinterpreted.
His experiments used locally earth based "2D" observations fail to utilize or understand Einstein's work.

You cannot measure the Earth's "speed" using Hubble's technique while sitting on it.

It's narcissistic behavior of some humans who subconsciously want to be the center of the universe.

Hubble's experiment performed on any planet will have the same observations.

The big bang theory let sciences progress while letting certain factions of society save-face. It's the Darwin or the egg theory.
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd June 2014, 03:51 PM   #9
SY is offline SY  United States
diyAudio Moderator
 
SY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Chicagoland
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNR View Post

The universe is not expanding, only our view of the universe is expanding.
The data indicate otherwise.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SNR View Post
You cannot measure the Earth's "speed" using Hubble's technique while sitting on it.
Grammatically correct, physically meaningless.
__________________
And while they may not be as strong as apes, don't lock eyes with 'em, don't do it. Puts 'em on edge. They might go into berzerker mode; come at you like a whirling dervish, all fists and elbows.
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd June 2014, 04:15 PM   #10
diyAudio Member
 
Philosophil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
SY,

Wouldn't it be more correct to say "physically meaningless on the current model or theory"? After all, the notion of individual electrons might actually be meaningful on the older, planetary or billiard ball model, but not on the current model. Similarly, the notion of an edge to the universe might actually have a meaning in an Aristotelian or Ptolemaic model of the universe, but again not in the current one. Of course to the best of our knowledge we should take the current model as truthful to some extent, but that doesn't mean it must serve as the basis for the meaning of all terms or sentences, including a physicalist sense. Doesn't it make better sense to think of meaning as being context dependent and what might be meaningless in one context could be meaningful in another?

Phil
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Who represented your country at Miss Universe? jackinnj The Lounge 11 18th January 2013 01:27 PM
expanding pass through dampening mcmahon48 Multi-Way 9 14th February 2009 12:19 AM
The Sound of the Universe pinkmouse Everything Else 1 23rd January 2004 11:21 AM
Dark Side of the Universe purplepeople Music 2 11th September 2003 05:57 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 10:42 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2