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Old 24th April 2014, 01:12 AM   #11
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All the fancy DSP in Sound Easy UE may make a square wave look better, but I am not at all convinced it matters any to the actual sound.
For the most part, I agree, but there may be some potential, if a time aligned wavefront actually makes it to the listening location, for a more highly detailed, better integrated listening experience.
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Old 24th April 2014, 01:20 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by tvrgeek View Post
All the fancy DSP in Sound Easy UE may make a square wave look better, but I am not at all convinced it matters any to the actual sound.
It makes a difference but it cannot be the only criteria to test and judge a speaker system by ....
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Old 24th April 2014, 06:45 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by mitchba View Post
Wrt speaker system testing in the time domain, typically the step response of the speaker is what is measured: ...
Thank you very much indeed for the very valuable explanations
In very basic terms i would expect that a speaker outputs a wave very similar to the input (i know this is quite trivial but then it should be like this)
And this seems not so easy to achieve
If a single driver can give a good square wave as output then the murderer is the crossover.
If a crossover cannot pass a quite good square wave this is bad i think
I understand that while active XOs have no problems to achieve this, only 1st order passive XOs can do the same.
If this is true i think it is important
Thanks again and kind regards,
gino
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Old 24th April 2014, 06:47 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
It should be noted that Rehdeko speakers use series XOs -- their info shown in post 1.
dave
Hi and thanks for the info !
Series XOs ? what are they ? which order are they ?
Regards, gino
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Old 24th April 2014, 07:25 AM   #15
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I understand that while active XOs have no problems to achieve this, only 1st order passive XOs can do the same.
It is indeed possible to achieve this with active crossovers but don't assume all active crossovers can achieve it.

For me the shown measurements look much too nicely to be believable, specially the one at 100 Hz.

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Charles
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Old 24th April 2014, 07:25 AM   #16
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Series vs. Parallel Crossover Networks

The square wave response in post 1 suggests that the uses 1st order XOs.

I have had good success with series XOs in FASTs where the XO is 200-400 Hz.

dave
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Old 24th April 2014, 08:52 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
Series vs. Parallel Crossover Networks
The square wave response in post 1 suggests that the uses 1st order XOs.
I have had good success with series XOs in FASTs where the XO is 200-400 Hz.
dave
Hi and thanks again for the kind and valuable reply
I should have said that i have big difficulties to understand all the science (read math) behind phenomena.
Let me say that i prefer accurate speakers, even if this means less "musicality".
So my question can be rephrased as follows: can a speaker not able to pass decently a square wave called accurate ? i do not think so.
It could be due to the driver, to the xover or both i agree.
But still it will not be accurate.
Instead if we talk about "musicality" everything is possible.
The concept of musicality is very subjective.
Moreover i think that more or less electronics have no problem with square waves
So it is mostly a speakers issue.
Thanks and regards
gino

P.S. i do not know if they have cheated with pictures of course.
But still they propose this test as a valuable one.

Last edited by ginetto61; 24th April 2014 at 08:54 AM.
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Old 24th April 2014, 09:32 AM   #18
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Square waves contain far more frequency components than audio signals.
Trying to reproduce square waves with loudspeakers is unnecessary and impossible.
Transducers, microphones and loudspeakers, are bandwidth limited both in low and high frequencies.

Order 1 crossovers give nice square response when the summation of the low pass and high pass channels is done in the electrical domain. When drivers enter the game, the acoustical response is somewhat less ideal.

However, your concern may be only addressed to crossovers.
Trying to get decent transient responses from loudpseakers is still an aim. With this idea in mind, some work has been made since 2000 under the Jean-Michel Le Cleac'h's impulsion to reduce the group delay variations introduced by crossovers (search "quasi optimal"). For instance :

"Quasi-optimal" crossover for high-efficiency loudspeaker system
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Old 24th April 2014, 10:09 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ginetto61 View Post
... can a speaker not able to pass decently a square wave called accurate ?
Most loudspeakers cannot reproduce a reasonable facsimile of a square wave -- it takes very good phase response & very extended HF extension.

Accurate is also a very hard term to nail down.

dave
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Old 24th April 2014, 11:39 AM   #20
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duntech_sovereign_2001_2.jpg

duntech_sovereign_2001_1.jpg
Duntech loudspeakers were noted for their time aligned construction (and simple order crossovers).
The Sovereigns give stunningly good depth reproduction, when fed correct absolute polarity.
Crossover phase rotations and lousy driver time alignment adds up to sonic confusion.
It is worth getting time alignment correct, actively or passively (physical construction).

Dan.
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