Hello everyone,
I just wanted to share this and please let me know what you all think:
Hi-End System vs percussion band - YouTube
Happy New Year, everyone!
- Ian
I just wanted to share this and please let me know what you all think:
Hi-End System vs percussion band - YouTube
Happy New Year, everyone!
- Ian
The stereo was definitely worse, but there's a million things wrong with how they did the comparison.
To take one example, when you mic a drum up, you get a completely different sound through the mic, compared to listening to the drum acoustically. Even with super-linear condenser mics and the best headphones (or whatever you might use to monitor), putting the mic next to the drum yields a different sound. It'd sound the same as if your head was <1' from the drum, but we never listen like that.
Lets say we're micing up a hi-hat.
You'd put the mic on a mic stand, close-ish to the opening between the two metal dishes (I don't know the proper name for them, but you know what I mean). With the mic stand so close to the hi-hat stand, you pick up some floor rumble: the hi-hat is a mechanical device with a chain and pivots, after all.
So, you put a swept high-pass filter in there, I usually go for 300Hz or so.
But now, anything the mic picks up from the hi-hat itself (the bit you want to hear) that's sub-300Hz simply won't get through.
You have, however, stopped amplifying that annoying rumble.
Micing is always choosing the lesser of a given number of evils.
Its still choosing evil, though.
Chris
To take one example, when you mic a drum up, you get a completely different sound through the mic, compared to listening to the drum acoustically. Even with super-linear condenser mics and the best headphones (or whatever you might use to monitor), putting the mic next to the drum yields a different sound. It'd sound the same as if your head was <1' from the drum, but we never listen like that.
Lets say we're micing up a hi-hat.
You'd put the mic on a mic stand, close-ish to the opening between the two metal dishes (I don't know the proper name for them, but you know what I mean). With the mic stand so close to the hi-hat stand, you pick up some floor rumble: the hi-hat is a mechanical device with a chain and pivots, after all.
So, you put a swept high-pass filter in there, I usually go for 300Hz or so.
But now, anything the mic picks up from the hi-hat itself (the bit you want to hear) that's sub-300Hz simply won't get through.
You have, however, stopped amplifying that annoying rumble.
Micing is always choosing the lesser of a given number of evils.
Its still choosing evil, though.
Chris
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You are micing hihats?
I usually struggle to keep the hihat level down even without a dedicated mic on it.
Bloody things bleed into everything. Also I wouldn't aim the mic at the gap if I really had to mic a hihat to avoid the chuffing noise from the air that the hat expels.
That said my favourite way of micing a drum kit is to use no more than 3 mics: a stereo pair plus one dedicated kick drum mic.
Sorry to the OP for the OT btw!
I usually struggle to keep the hihat level down even without a dedicated mic on it.
Bloody things bleed into everything. Also I wouldn't aim the mic at the gap if I really had to mic a hihat to avoid the chuffing noise from the air that the hat expels.
That said my favourite way of micing a drum kit is to use no more than 3 mics: a stereo pair plus one dedicated kick drum mic.
Sorry to the OP for the OT btw!
We mic everything. Its necessary: we have a rather large Nexo Alpha system** with around 4' of Camco Vortex amps.
Never heard any air rushing with the hi-hat opening and closing, though.
Chris
** 3xS2s, 6xB1, 5xM3, per side. Room's not massive (probably around 15mx20m), so we can get blurry-vision-loud if deemed appropriate.
Ah, yes, I'd assumed live, similar to what the video shows.
I'd think the argument of mic positioning affecting sound still holds with kick drums - mics inside and out sound different, and then do you mic near the beater, or the opposite side?
There're far too many variables in close-micing, but doing anything but presents more difficult challenges. Again, just a lesser evil.
Chris
I agree, mic placement is the single most important factor and close mic'ing is pretty much the only way to do it in a Live situation.
Personally I wouldn't go too close to the beater (in a studio) because I just love that slightly 'flabby' '70s drum sound.
Big Mick (Heavy Metal sound man extraordinaire) used a combination of both close and distant mic'ing for the Led Zep reunion gig to get close to John Bonhams drum sound.
The distant mic's went through digital delays to get them back into phase with the close mics. Suppose that would be almost impossible with a much younger band on a much smaller stage though.
Talking about Led Zep I've noticed John Paul Jones is now listed as a permanent member of Seasick Steve's backing band!
Btw we are still kinda OT and I start feeling a wee bit guilty with regards to Ian.
Personally I wouldn't go too close to the beater (in a studio) because I just love that slightly 'flabby' '70s drum sound.
Big Mick (Heavy Metal sound man extraordinaire) used a combination of both close and distant mic'ing for the Led Zep reunion gig to get close to John Bonhams drum sound.
The distant mic's went through digital delays to get them back into phase with the close mics. Suppose that would be almost impossible with a much younger band on a much smaller stage though.
Talking about Led Zep I've noticed John Paul Jones is now listed as a permanent member of Seasick Steve's backing band!
Btw we are still kinda OT and I start feeling a wee bit guilty with regards to Ian.
It's alright, Charles and everyone. I just wanted to gain an insight as to what the forum members think about this whole thing. Question is, I'm not sure if the high-end system was playing back what the ensemble just did or played. I think it would've been better if that was stated.
Also, a better test would have been an unamplified band playing vs. the same band playing the same song, but recorded in a studio instead?
But, going back to the video, it seems like the high-end equipment had a lot more treble energy or "air", which I thought back then was good, but now see as coloration. The ensemble definitely had less air, but more believable because the attack and dynamic range are simply there. They "pop" out more vs. the high-end system.
I believe Stereophile did something similar in one of the shows. Not sure if it was the CES or what-not, with the Aerial Speakers (20T?).
Thanks,
Ian
Yeah, that is the standard way of mic'ing up a drum kit since mixing consoles grew to 48 channels and beyond (way beyond in some cases) in the late '70s/early '80s.
Nevertheless my favourite recorded drum sounds are pretty much all from the mid '60s to mid '70s. Hence my preference of using only 3 mic's.
Nevertheless my favourite recorded drum sounds are pretty much all from the mid '60s to mid '70s. Hence my preference of using only 3 mic's.
What "works in the mix" is often best, even if it doesn't sound best in isolation.
How do you mic them pano and i need two decent mics to play around with , any suggestions ...?
2 mics ..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YV-N_gA6gDI
2 mics ..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YV-N_gA6gDI
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Like this setup better .........
Recording Drums, Part I: Overhead Mic Placements Compared - YouTube
Recording Drums, Part I: Overhead Mic Placements Compared - YouTube
You want to do live or in the studio? The approaches are different. On stage you are fighting a lot of others sounds, so the drums are close miked, sometimes with more than one mic per drum. In simple set-ups toms will be done with one mic between two toms to save mics and channels. High hat usually gets its own mic, other cymbals often don't - they just get an overhead or two. Snare will often get a top and bottom mic. And there are lot's of different approaches to miking a kick drum.
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