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Old 3rd January 2014, 03:32 AM   #321
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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But I was referring to people who listen to track after tack of airplane engines and steam locomotives - just for the "sound quality"!!
How do you know, maybe they like that stuff? Steam locos remain very popular 50+ years after the dominance of the diesel-electric. Airplanes, too. I hear a prop plane droning overhead right now...

Space Operas with Pratt & Whitney - I like it!
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Old 3rd January 2014, 06:10 AM   #322
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Space Operas with Pratt & Whitney - I like it!
You haven't lived until you've heard a Hellcat, full combat power, water injection, turbos screaming, closing on a A6M . . . ain't no vacuum in them thar manifolds . . .

It's even better in Stereo . . .
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Old 3rd January 2014, 06:59 AM   #323
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The answers are there if you look for them . . . but you won't see them if you have already made up your mind that they can't be so.

As I said, Earl confirmed, and you already knew if you have the book, McCarthy writes mostly about "production" space. What he writes does "translate" to small rooms, though, if you let it. Those other "numbers" that you want you can get mostly from Toole . . . none of it is obscure or "secret". The only issues are how to get to the "good" numbers in a small room, and again, it's all about pattern control (the core of the McCarthy text). The specific details of small speakers in small rooms may be (a bit) different, but the underlying principles are not . . .
You recommend "the numbers" from Toole and yet you often argue against Toole's findings?

Besides that, if it were that easy and clear then we all would be sitting in front of our stereos instead of this computer screen.

I've worked and listened in highly treated control rooms that got "the numbers" right and still stereo doesn't sound real to me. There's simply too much distortion of spatial information. This is my experience. I wish it would be different but it's not.
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Old 3rd January 2014, 07:02 AM   #324
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Well, yes, probably. And binaural recordings aren't good enough for me. I really never hear anything special about them. A good recording from a stereo mic is as nice, if not better. I don't understand the appeal.
Ever tried binaural recordings done with your own pinnae? Generalized HRTFs usually don't work for me very well but my own ears do.
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Old 3rd January 2014, 12:40 PM   #325
dewardh is offline dewardh  United States
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You recommend "the numbers" from Toole and yet you often argue against Toole's findings?
Say what?

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Besides that, if it were that easy and clear then we all would be sitting in front of our stereos instead of this computer screen.
Maybe if you got out from in front of "that" computer screen and built some decent speakers you would listen to music more. It's not exactly "easy" but it's not that hard, either . . .

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I've worked and listened in highly treated control rooms that got "the numbers" right and still stereo doesn't sound real to me. There's simply too much distortion of spatial information. This is my experience.
Sounds like a personal problem. Glad I'm not you . . .

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Markus - we simply can't trust anything that you say!! Its all about the argument!
True dat . . .
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Old 3rd January 2014, 01:13 PM   #326
dewardh is offline dewardh  United States
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Or, to put it more bluntly . . . I can sit in my living room right now and listen, in "stereo", to sound reproductions with better clarity and better "imaging" than I could hear "live" in some of the halls I've staged orchestral performances in, and many if not most of the "rock" shows that I've attended (where the "sound" is often terrible). And all kidding aside that's particularly true of opera, where the combination of singers on stage and the orchestra in the pit rarely sounds as good in the hall as what I can get at home on Blu-ray. There are times when I prefer good sound to "accurate reproduction" of bad . . .
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Old 3rd January 2014, 02:23 PM   #327
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^
So now we're back to the good old audiophool argument "sounds good to me"? Besides that you're getting personal (again). There are better ways to spend my time. Have a nice day.
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Old 3rd January 2014, 05:14 PM   #328
dewardh is offline dewardh  United States
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Have a nice day.
Thank you . . . I expect that I will. The weather is beautiful, and the music is good.

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Ever tried binaural recordings done with your own pinnae?
I hope your cochlear implant surgery goes will, and that all the major companies start producing recordings for you to listen to with it soon (I presume you've already produced and distributed to them a large number of the appropriate pinnae "microphone" devices, and instructions on how to use it/them in the studio (where there might be some issues) and your preferred audience seating for "live" recordings). Or is that too "personal" . . .

Ps. don't move your head, or the image will move too

Pps. I must confess that when listening to music I move my head a lot (just as my eyes move when viewing a scene), and even walk around whenever I can (which is part of why I prefer rehearsals (where I have almost complete freedom of movement) to performance. I move around a lot when listening at home, too . . . no doubt why (along with liking to share) I refer to "listening area" rather than "sweet spot" when discussing the performance of speaker systems in rooms.
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Old 3rd January 2014, 05:32 PM   #329
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You haven't lived until you've heard a Hellcat, full combat power, water injection, turbos screaming, closing on a A6M . . . ain't no vacuum in them thar manifolds . . .

It's even better in Stereo . . .
Back about 92 or so, I was visiting the Tillamook Air Museum on the Oregon coast...this was when it had opened recently, there were no velvet ropes set-up, you could actually touch & peruse in and around the aircraft (the canopy on a Mustang is very narrow & claustrophobic) a BF-109 is TINY! Catalina, big. Hands on on a Allison engine, could have stole an exhaust manifold gasket if I was so inclined!
As we were about to leave, a Hellcat flew in, watching him taxi some 60 feet away, he got a tad stuck, so there he was,tailwheel stuck, pointed right at me...he ran-up the engine to free himself...tears welled up as I heard that sound.
There is a soundtrack to the old movie "Flight of the Pheonix" 1965.........the takeoff scene whereby Jimmy Stewarts character runs the engine up to full-power...with the musical score in the background you can make out that particular wonderful sound.
Just saying.


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Old 3rd January 2014, 05:38 PM   #330
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The original question was about human ear.
Yes, it can, because bass contains harmonics. If not, it can't because low bass is perceived by the body, not by the ear.

Happy New Year! :-)
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