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Old 17th May 2013, 08:06 AM   #1
M Gregg is offline M Gregg  United Kingdom
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Default Fermi paradox?

Any thoughts on,

Fermi paradox...
looking at it as though presented in a court of law<<<beyond reasonable doubt.

Fermi paradox - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Old 17th May 2013, 08:22 AM   #2
M Gregg is offline M Gregg  United Kingdom
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Here is a thought..

Could quantum entanglement be used to transmit data across the universe instantaneously?


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Old 17th May 2013, 09:48 AM   #3
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There are a lot of assumptions underlying the Fermi paradox. It only needs one assumption to be wrong and the paradox falls. For example, the mediocrity principle - which is disputed.
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Old 17th May 2013, 10:26 AM   #4
M Gregg is offline M Gregg  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DF96 View Post
There are a lot of assumptions underlying the Fermi paradox. It only needs one assumption to be wrong and the paradox falls. For example, the mediocrity principle - which is disputed.
Its interesting..

Quote from the Wiki..

Mediocrity principle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Deutsch refers to Stephen Hawking's quote that "The human race is just a chemical scum on a moderate-sized planet, orbiting around a very average star in the outer suburb of one among a hundred billion galaxies.", noting that our neighborhood in the universe is not typical (80% of the universe's mass is dark matter) and that a concentration of mass such as our solar system is an "isolated, uncommon phenomenon".

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Old 17th May 2013, 01:38 PM   #5
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Once we accept that any travel, communication or interaction will be limited to sub-luminal velocities a very practical problem arises. Aside from listening passively, any investment in exploration and outreach requires that those making the investment spend the money while fully expecting that they will not live to see results. Interstellar voyagers who can surmount the funding issue do so while condemning themselves and their progeny to lifetimes out of touch on a one way voyage. Despite the military impetus that was behind our early spacefaring the clear trend since is a lack of public interest, funding or determination to take even the small steps that might lead to broader exploration. The only interstellar voyaging that gets attention does so with imaginary space-time warping that makes the galaxy broadly accessible in short timeframes.

If we accept the mediocrity principle, that earth is ordinary and humans are humdrum, and we examine our dwindling exploratory impetus and our increasingly shorter attention span as a culture we should conclude that intelligent life may naturally evolve in directions that elevate reality TV and doom interstellar outreach.
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Old 17th May 2013, 01:58 PM   #6
SY is offline SY  United States
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Spatial AND temporal issues are inextricably linked.
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Old 17th May 2013, 07:13 PM   #7
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The paradox projects the current 100 year span of our technology which could conceivably bridge interstellar distances and assumes infinitely more advanced civilizations still pound megawatts into the air for entertainment. Maybe something we don't yet understand impedes signals, who knows?
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Old 17th May 2013, 07:15 PM   #8
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Yes, we are bandwidth limited
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Old 17th May 2013, 10:50 PM   #9
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Once probability was given a place in the real world, rather than just in our understanding of it, all sorts of weird inferences became possible.

Mediocre is value-laden; what's wrong with normal?

Surely we are normal, and special, simply because we are us? Elsewhere there is not us, and that is normal too. We can't rule out a possibility that life exists elsewhere, but we have no way of estimating what the probability is until we have some evidence. We're not evidence because we're us.
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Old 18th May 2013, 07:30 AM   #10
M Gregg is offline M Gregg  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasticIsGood View Post

Surely we are normal, and special, simply because we are us? Elsewhere there is not us, and that is normal too. We can't rule out a possibility that life exists elsewhere, but we have no way of estimating what the probability is until we have some evidence. We're not evidence because we're us.
Yes however,

Think of the impact of knowing either..

A.There is nothing else..just us.

B.There is other life..

Can "A" ever be answered without "B" ?

Assuming the universe is infinite<<<it might not be..then we could only say well there is nothing everywhere we have observed or visited.

Here is a thought...if advanced aliens were sending out messages using quantum entanglement would we know about it? Would an advanced race use a communication that was limited to the speed of light over vast distances?

Cavemen listening for a shout across the valley..with no radio reciever?

The universe should be teaming with messages...so why isn't it?
Even if the messages were the low tech kind before they advanced..
So what does it mean if there is only us? Is it impossible to advance beyond a technological point..ie can we know all there is to know?

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