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Old 8th May 2013, 10:04 AM   #511
fas42 is online now fas42  Australia
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Originally Posted by john curl View Post
Well said, Fas42. I really try to stay in the middle, mixing audio research done by others, with my own experiments, and the 'claims' of others (which can be rather extreme sometimes). It's difficult, but it can lead to more successful audio designs.
Thanks, John. I think too many people get confused between others finding something interesting happening, and those other people's explanations for what's occurring. A discoverer is not necessarily a rigorous scientist, or adept engineer; or perhaps he just intends to throw the idle curious off track ...
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Old 8th May 2013, 10:24 AM   #512
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Originally Posted by CopperTop View Post
According to that logic we would do just as well to go up to people in the street and ask them for their opinions on what would improve our audio systems, or read tea leaves, or pick random words out of the dictionary. And who said anything about falling over laughing? Have you seen something funny in the extracts I posted?
CopperTop;

That series of posts was great. Comedy is as much about delivery as it is content.
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Old 8th May 2013, 10:40 AM   #513
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Originally Posted by fas42 View Post
I'm repeating myself here, I know, but I feel it's worthwhile countering some of the negativity - this is an update to a chap's evaluation of how his system sounds after adding lots of very expensive "snake oil": My Experiences Building a Total Shunyata Zitron System--A Paradigm Shift - Page 2.
Is it coincidence that Shunyata chose the name 'Zitron' for the system?

And yes with regards to technical equipment the german sentence "Das Ding ist eine Zitrone" means the same as the literal english translation "That thing is a lemon".
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Old 8th May 2013, 11:05 AM   #514
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Originally Posted by CopperTop
I think some of the contributors here could learn quite a lot from modest and unassuming Shunyata founder Caelin Gabriel.
Why do all the best audio gizmos always seem to emerge from top-secret military research whose details can't be disclosed for public scrutiny? Why is there an assumption that if the military have been persuaded to spend my money on something which (allegedly) helps them spy on the bad guys, that I should also spend my money on it to (allegedly) improve my sound system? Why is this stuff often invented by someone who failed to complete an EE/science degree? Surely it could not be because that might imply some knowledge but not becoming a fully paid-up member of the 'nasty engineer/scientist' club?

It reminds me of the time when Hollywood male heroes were always divorced (in days when divorce was much rarer than today): the implication was that they were experienced but free.
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Old 8th May 2013, 11:34 AM   #515
fas42 is online now fas42  Australia
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The fact the particular system mentioned benefited from the particular "snake oil" products of a particular company is quite irrelevant; what is relevant is that the combination worked, to raise the standard of replay very significantly. The chap behind the company picked up some clues, by accident or happy experiment, found that many systems seemed to benefit, and went gangbusters on promoting it. And is probably making a decent living out of doing so, in the very best capitalist tradition ...

Which is all besides the point ... the real point is that something of interest is happening there ... and is anyone going to do some intelligent investigation of it? Most likely not, meaning there will be another round of snake oil products from someone else vaguely copying that success -- and someone else, and so on ...
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Old 8th May 2013, 11:45 AM   #516
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Originally Posted by rdf View Post
Mono button?
May be ... why not?
It is a bit extreme method , because there is no "soundstage" at all so there is nothing to argue about
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Old 8th May 2013, 11:49 AM   #517
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I've just read a thread on "Which solder is best". What utter bulls**t, the solder doesn't even make the connection in a properly constructed project.
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Old 8th May 2013, 11:53 AM   #518
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Originally Posted by DF96 View Post
Why do all the best audio gizmos always seem to emerge from top-secret military research whose details can't be disclosed for public scrutiny?
One reason may simply be that the military catches the most "interesting" research before it is patented / revealed to the public, and then keeps it secret....

Quote:
Originally Posted by DF96 View Post
Why is this stuff often invented by someone who failed to complete an EE/science degree?
Maybe because the person in question then have NOT "learned" all the "limits and rules" (that really do not exist) and maybe then also lost interest in a pensum the person understood was a possibly waste of time..

If a person have completed to much education it is nearly impossible to un-learn enough for the person to become a 'pure scientist' and will continue to be an 'applied scientist'....

"Normally everything is approached in the light of a preconceived theory - the ‘normal’ scientist has thus learned a technique which can be applied without asking for the reason why. As a consequence, the scientist has become what may be called an ‘applied’ scientist, in contradistinction to a ‘pure scientist’."
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Old 8th May 2013, 11:54 AM   #519
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Originally Posted by KatieandDad View Post
...the solder doesn't even make the connection in a properly constructed project.
What does then?
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Old 8th May 2013, 11:56 AM   #520
DF96 is offline DF96  England
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Originally Posted by fas42
what is relevant is that the combination worked, to raise the standard of replay very significantly.
Did it? Someone paid a lot of money for some things which come with a good story attached. It would be surprising if he didn't feel some improvement had taken place.

I'm not saying that no improvement happened. I am saying that we don't know whether it improved or not.
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