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Old 29th August 2013, 11:26 PM   #1891
SY is offline SY  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pano View Post
Anyone have a clue?
It's more important (though for most purposes still unimportant) for PVC compounds, where the colorants tend to be dyes rather than pigments, but there's so much other stuff in those compounds that it's usually the least of your worries. PTFEs use fundamentally different kinds of pigments, usually TiO2 plus some metal oxide, all at very low levels. The effect on the electrical performance is nonzero but vanishingly small- it takes very specialized techniques to measure it (that error bar stuff knocks out amateurs).

Audibility? Zero evidence, and not very plausible.
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Old 29th August 2013, 11:27 PM   #1892
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Originally Posted by Pano View Post
Strange, I do remember reading something a few years back about insulation colors and the actual properties of what's in the plastic that have an effect on signals - maybe audio? Not likely I'll ever find that again. Anyone have a clue?
I believe Belden did some work that showed the effects of the color of dye/pigment used, black being the worst. Nothing that would be meaningful for audio though.

se
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Old 30th August 2013, 12:02 AM   #1893
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In a balanced interconnect, the colors of the two core signal wires can make a difference. Being different colors could mean that the insulation was applied by 2 different machines or by the same machines at very different times. In either case the likelihood of the wires diameters being different increases. A 2% difference in diameter will degrade the cable balance.
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Old 30th August 2013, 12:44 AM   #1894
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... can make a difference ....
... could mean that the insulation was applied by 2 different machines or by the same machines at very different times.


can, could ... Any evidence for this? do you understand what IS evidence?

A 2% difference in diameter will degrade the cable balance.

Another meaningless statement! What IS cable balance? Any evidence for any of this? Why 2%? Why not 5% or 1% ? That implies measurements, science etc., which I'm sure you can quote.
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Old 30th August 2013, 12:58 AM   #1895
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I love my silver plated, PTFE insulated, Mil-Spec wire! It looks nice, is very easy to work with and I have lots of colors too. Does it sound better, I don't know...
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Old 30th August 2013, 01:12 AM   #1896
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cliffforrest View Post
... can make a difference ....
... could mean that the insulation was applied by 2 different machines or by the same machines at very different times.

can, could ... Any evidence for this? do you understand what IS evidence?
A 2% difference in diameter will degrade the cable balance.
Another meaningless statement! What IS cable balance? Any evidence for any of this? Why 2%? Why not 5% or 1% ? That implies measurements, science etc., which I'm sure you can quote.
OK then 1%.

Start with:

'Shield-Current-Induced Noise - Part 1'
http://www.audiosystemsgroup.com/Shi...uced_Noise.pdf

'Shield-Current-Induced Noise - Part 2'
http://www.audiosystemsgroup.com/SCIN-2.pdf

Other Jim Brown and/or Bill Whitlock papers are available if need be.
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Old 30th August 2013, 01:23 AM   #1897
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OK so the above link doesn't have the paragraph that I was looking for.

This is a summary from a Bill Whitlock seminar, while I look for the long-form statement.

Wires of different colors must be made on different machines – the machines that
extrude the liquid insulation onto the wire as it is pulled through a die. Die diameter
has a tolerance on the order of 0.001”, according to Belden. Therefore, two wires of
different color but otherwise identical, can have insulation thickness differences.
Calculations of capacitance, using the dielectric constant of the PVC insulation,
generally confirm capacitance differences (to the shield) in the vicinity of 5%.
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Old 30th August 2013, 11:29 AM   #1898
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What if the two cores are different diameters? Magnetic coupling still depends on net loop area, so is unchanged. Electrostatic coupling may become unbalanced, but a shield/screen will fix that. So a diameter imbalance will only affect unscreened/unshielded twisted pair which had a perfect twist, in a situation where it ought to be screened/shielded anyway. Have I missed something? We are talking audio, or low speed digital?
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Old 30th August 2013, 02:58 PM   #1899
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Avoid ground loops and you eliminate shield current.

If you are going to go 125ft, use double Faraday shielded cable (two shields earthed at single, opposite ends only).
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Old 31st August 2013, 12:02 AM   #1900
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Originally Posted by 7n7is View Post
Silver wire.

Silver tonearm wire

In this thread there is a list of patents which includes these two which discuss the use of high purity silver and copper. The use of silver wires and cables significantly improved the performance of CD-4 and SQ demodulators, and FM stereo mpx in the experiments discussed in this thread, but gave a minor improvement with stereo records. With CD-4 records, the ultrasonic carrier has to be demodulated to get the front - back audio and has to be mixed with the front + back audio to get the 4 separate channels. Preserving the phase relationships are important. Significant improvement was found with SQ records using a Fosgate Tate II, too. The FM stereo mpx adapter uses the time division multiplex demodulation and phase relationships seem to be important here, too.

US 6231637 Process for producing high-purity silver materials
column 1 lines 19-32
With copper wires having purities on the order of 99.9 wt %, signals cannot be transmitted correctly without phase differences and, as a result, only blurred images or unsharp sounds are produced. To solve these problems, high-purity copper wires produced by working raw materials having purities of at least 99.999 wt % have recently been introduced into the market.
Similar effects are exhibited by silver wires that are produced by a process which comprises solidifying silver with a purity of at least 99.95 wt % in one longitudinal direction to yield an ingot, drawing it by either cold or warm working and further working the wire under conditions that will not cause recrystallization.

US 4582545 Method of producing electrical conductor
column 1 lines 10+
As is well known, an electrical conductor is generally made of one of two types of copper: tough pitch copper (TPC) and oxygen-free copper (OFC) The copper is generally worked so as to be circular or rectangular in cross section or in the form of a foil and then recrystallized by annealing at a temperature ranging between 300.degree. and 600.degree. C. to produce the conductor.
It has recently been understood that an electrical conductor made of OFC in a transmisison line for a multi-frequency audio signal, particularly, as an inner wiring conductor or a loud speaker wiring conductor of an audio apparatus, is much superior to one made of TPC.
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