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Old 7th January 2013, 05:08 PM   #111
wahab is offline wahab  Algeria
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Originally Posted by dirkwright View Post
The father of this style of schooling was
Johann Gottlieb Fichte - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Yet this system had Hegel or Gauss as teachers and produced
the most refined scientists and thinkers in german history....
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Old 7th January 2013, 05:23 PM   #112
Cassiel is online now Cassiel  Libya
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Originally Posted by Tordenguden View Post
Maybe this one could be interesting RSA Animate - Changing Education Paradigms - YouTube
I enjoyed that. To be fair and to sound less negative there are good narrators and teachers but, speaking from my own experience, not that many. Certainly they are a minority.
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Old 7th January 2013, 05:26 PM   #113
DF96 is offline DF96  England
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Few people spend money on anything, including education, without some aim in mind. Given the choice between 'indoctrination' and ignorance (which was the choice for most ordinary people in Europe at that time) I think 'indoctrination' is not too bad an option given that the teacher can't guarantee the desired outcome.

All school systems are based on some world view or another. View-free or morality-free education is not possible; those who claim otherwise either don't recognise their own prejudices or wish to hide them.
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Old 7th January 2013, 05:28 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by dirkwright View Post
Be wary of Sir Ken. If you read what he actually says, he considers home schoolers as radicals and on the fringe. He is a shill for the Royals.
Maybe i should have mentioned that I do not totaly agree with Sir Ken.
But I do believe that he touches some very important subjects. On the other hand - I agree alot with some of your views - Even though i do not think it's that simple. I know that the current education system I flawed by the core - and made to form "civilized" workes, that fundamentally are not meant to think radical thoughts that might endanger the position of the existing power.
Some might go so far, to ask: Are we really ready to be set free?
This one, might hit the spot a little more
George Carlin Education Sucks, Owners of America, Social Security and Mass Media - YouTube

Last edited by Tordenguden; 7th January 2013 at 05:30 PM.
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Old 7th January 2013, 05:36 PM   #115
Cassiel is online now Cassiel  Libya
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Originally Posted by DF96 View Post

All school systems are based on some world view or another. View-free or morality-free education is not possible; those who claim otherwise either don't recognise their own prejudices or wish to hide them.
The outcome of the battle of Trafalgar was pure luck. It was just the lousy weather playing dirty tricks with our ships, or so I was taught.
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Old 7th January 2013, 06:04 PM   #116
wg_ski is offline wg_ski  United States
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I enjoyed algebra. It is a necessary precursor to calculus. Together with geometry these form the basis of understanding how the physical universe works, including objects like audio amplifiers and guitar strings and drum skins.
People don't need to know how to build audio amplifiers when it is cheaper and better for the economy to buy them. And when all music comes out of a computer (great computers that fill the hallowed halls of course), guitar strings get pretty irrelevant, too.
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Old 7th January 2013, 06:33 PM   #117
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Yet this system had Hegel or Gauss as teachers and produced
the most refined scientists and thinkers in german history....
In all history, and they knew it. Hegel was right: they had the spirit of the world in their grasp. The idea of being the chosen people was a ghastly distortion. The spirit rests with whoever is making most progress. Just now it's upping sticks and moving to China.

Good education, like science, enables both heroes and villains.
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Old 7th January 2013, 08:33 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by wg_ski View Post
People don't need to know how to build audio amplifiers when it is cheaper and better for the economy to buy them. And when all music comes out of a computer (great computers that fill the hallowed halls of course), guitar strings get pretty irrelevant, too.
Just a single chord, the culmination of all musical development, droning forever from all devices. A token for the epoch of progress, before we knew everything. Civilisation won't need our conscious participation. Education, like everything else, will be normal
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Old 7th January 2013, 09:58 PM   #119
DF96 is offline DF96  England
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Originally Posted by wg_ski
People don't need to know how to build audio amplifiers when it is cheaper and better for the economy to buy them. And when all music comes out of a computer (great computers that fill the hallowed halls of course), guitar strings get pretty irrelevant, too.
Someone has to design the amplifiers and the computers. Of course, some people claim to be able to 'design' technology without maths but they are just using/abusing the results of those who can do maths.

Maybe some might like a world where society is ignorant of technology and so exploited/ruled by a priestly caste of technologists (the only ones who can do algebra). We already seem to suffer from that in economics. It has worked really well, hasn't it?
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Old 8th January 2013, 02:20 AM   #120
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Someone has to design the amplifiers and the computers. Of course, some people claim to be able to 'design' technology without maths but they are just using/abusing the results of those who can do maths.

Maybe some might like a world where society is ignorant of technology and so exploited/ruled by a priestly caste of technologists (the only ones who can do algebra). We already seem to suffer from that in economics. It has worked really well, hasn't it?
People are far more likely to be debating economics (and education) at the bus stop than discussing technical design. Both have worked really well, but there have been many discarded prototypes along the way, and obsolescence gets built in no matter what we do. But this is all very today.

Tomorrow everyone will not be ignorant, but omniscient, so knowledge will cease to have value. Everything will be optimised. Social organisation will be just a matter of doing what's obvious. Bees don't need priests, economists, or mathematicians.

Today is pretty much over, tomorrow's worryingly different but possibly not too bad in itself. It's the bit in between that's scary.
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