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Old 7th December 2012, 01:25 AM   #11
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I would read the technical section with great attention. Perhaps it was not John who I am thinking of. The technical reviews were often very good to excellent, I would not fault the magazine in that regards. But some of the listening test were terrible, they often were so at odds with the technical specifications it often seemed like the reviews were of two different products.
 
Old 7th December 2012, 02:45 AM   #12
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C'mon, Atkinson has heard more speakers and measured more speakers than almost anybody. The guy is very accomplished and skillful at what he does.

I saw the diatribe as a bitch slap against unknown poseurs/aggressors who never heard the speaker in question yet criticized it based on some general theoretical knowledge while JA heard and measured it, and wrote what I would have to grant is a balanced evaluation that took failings and strengths into consideration.

The DIYer struck me as confused and a victim of technological tunnel vision. He was saying "you can't do that" when obviously one can...and with reasonably pleasing results!

This sort of "my way or the highway" showdown happens on this board all the time. There are lots of ways to make a speaker, some fashionable among the techno DIY set and some not. A somewhat resonant cabinet can sound very good whether everybody likes the idea or not, for example.

I am anything but a Stereophile fanboy but here I have to say that JA was being open minded, listened with open ears, took note of several empirical "difficulties" and came up with a well-reasoned synthesis. His conclusion was that the measured shortcomings did not, on the whole, invalidate the design.

JA was also logical and precise in his answers on the measurement questions. He does this every day. The other guy was mixed up or at least his rhetoric was.

Price tag aside, people like these DeVore speakers. Somebody such as JA understands why they are $12k list price while the DIYer only thinks about how thinks he can build something close to them in the garage for $600.

Possibly true, but the DIYer will not have to spend $250 a pair on shipping crates, make little name plates, have every speaker perfectly finished, leave room for international distributors and their dealers to take a cut, pay rent on factory space and advertising, make a modest living off the enterprise, etc.

Yeah, all that adds up a very good set of reasons for DIY but the high end business is what it is. We are not the target audience for the DeVore Oranguatan speakers.

Here, Atkinson was the pro and the anonymous DIYer attackers were out of their element and outclassed. I say he handled it well.
 
Old 7th December 2012, 03:03 AM   #13
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You are correct on every level about the cost of selling into the audiophile market. One of the most expensive cost is the marketing of any of these products. Take a look at the line card for the advertising rates in Stereophile or any other high end magazine and you will see probably one of the highest cost involved in being in this business.
 
Old 7th December 2012, 03:14 AM   #14
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Old 7th December 2012, 03:22 AM   #15
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Looks to me like you misread JA. There he's talking about 'claiming authority as an engineer' not 'being an engineer'. Big difference.
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Old 7th December 2012, 03:25 AM   #16
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Where the real delta between manufacturing cost and retail price comes in is the international distribution scheme. Importers have to bring gear in at a price where both they and dealers can make a reasonable profit, after paying transportation and duty.

I know some Asian distributors might be looking to buy at, say, 35% of list. They will want to buy a quantity then hammer the maker on price.

They also want expensive products because there is more money in it and in hot markets, the expensive stuff is what is selling. Poor struggling folks are poor and struggling everywhere while the excecutive pimps have money to blow on luxuries worldwide.

The manufacturer is not the one making the most off of the product in this scenario.

Sadly, more and more, US and European high end audio companies are dependent on the export market. Just the way it is.

Domestic sales are at a more favorable percentage, but then you have to cover local advertising, etc.

A tough business. This is why knowledgeable DIyers are amateurs and the pros are pros. I think this is what JA was getting at.

Designing and making a pair of decent speakers in the workshop is one thing. Staying alive in high end audio is a whole different universe, especially if you are an honest, sincere, quality minded, and reasonable dude like John DeVore .
 
Old 7th December 2012, 04:09 AM   #17
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You can defend JA all you want but he's an *** in my book. A warty speaker costing $12,000 should not be warty nor should he tell someone they have no right to criticise it just because they aren't a manufacturer or professional designer. JA made several mistakes in describing how that small tweeter could mate with the large woofer using that tiny waveguide and he got corrected by the DIYer and JA got all snooty about it. Anyways this is last I'll comment on it. Some people can do no wrong in some people's minds.
 
Old 7th December 2012, 04:57 AM   #18
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"Someone who sells lots of poorly designed speakers is a professional, not an engineer. ""

LOL

I think JA has an engineering or Physics degree from the UK IIRC.

As some one noted, Stereophile is a commercial concern and its basically designed to help manufacturers sell equipment to well heeled but non technical audiophiles.

And, no matter what JA or any of the reviewers think, theres a host of good designers and good amps here on diyAudio that on a double blind test would do really well against the 'professional' stuff.

I said DB because beauty is in the eye of the beholder . . .
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Old 7th December 2012, 09:44 AM   #19
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Funny I seem to remember him doing some DIY on a counterpoint SA7. Funny statement obviously untrue, who cares what he says.
 
Old 7th December 2012, 10:18 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidL View Post
You can defend JA all you want but he's an *** in my book. A warty speaker costing $12,000 should not be warty nor should he tell someone they have no right to criticise it just because they aren't a manufacturer or professional designer. JA made several mistakes in describing how that small tweeter could mate with the large woofer using that tiny waveguide and he got corrected by the DIYer and JA got all snooty about it. Anyways this is last I'll comment on it. Some people can do no wrong in some people's minds.
The Dood was out of line , JA 's response was merely a stab and yes it's a poorly designed speaker , that doesnt mean people wont like it , no different than some of the ones around here ..

 

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