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Old 1st November 2012, 09:03 PM   #61
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ER.... if it exists then it must be natural...where does super (or beyond/more than) come in?

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M. Gregg
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Old 1st November 2012, 09:53 PM   #62
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Regarding psychokinesis: if anyone is interested, I can send them schematics of the random number generator I used for a psychokinesis experiment in the early 1990's.

My experiment consisted of 25 runs of 10000 bits each. The first ten runs all had a deviation in the direction that was agreed upon before the equipment was started. The eleventh run produced a zero result and the following fourteen runs all had a deviation in the wrong direction. Overall the result was negative and not significant. Some test persons worked in a small electronics company, some others in the electronics department of a university.
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Old 1st November 2012, 10:01 PM   #63
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...The apparent failure of the psychics in the experiment mentioned could arise from two things:
1. they don't have paranormal powers,
2. they do have paranormal powers but the source, whatever it is, did not want to play ball with the scientists.
I suspect explanation 1 is true in this case, but I do not discount 2 as being impossible.
1a - they don't have sufficient paranormal powers (demi or semi-paranormal perhaps?)
2a - they have paranormal powers but the source was so strong and annoyed that it shielded the experiment from any outsider snooping
2b - the source lacked paranormal (or perhaps for such an entity, normal) powers and couldn't "play ball"

There are any number of apologies for why the experiment exposed an inability on the part of the "psychics". The reality is that after many many MANY years, no party has been able to show that psychic activity (and its various accompanying baggage including hauntings, possession and the like) is anything more than parlour tricks or entirely natural and explainable events.

So while technically and in a strict sense you may be correct in claiming an open-ness to the possibility of paranormal powers, its right up there with the acceptance that Marvel comic hero characters are not necessarily impossible variations of human capability...
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Old 1st November 2012, 10:45 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by aardvarkash10 View Post
There are any number of apologies for why the experiment exposed an inability on the part of the "psychics". The reality is that after many many MANY years, no party has been able to show that psychic activity (and its various accompanying baggage including hauntings, possession and the like) is anything more than parlour tricks or entirely natural and explainable events.

So while technically and in a strict sense you may be correct in claiming an open-ness to the possibility of paranormal powers, its right up there with the acceptance that Marvel comic hero characters are not necessarily impossible variations of human capability...
And, an often stated answer is, as mentioned earlier, that paranormal is actually "normal". That is, everyone has these "powers" but the vast majority choose not to worry about it, it's a minor, side issue in their day to day lives. Just about every family has an anecdotal story, or a few about, say, how an aunt just "knew" that something unfortunate had happened to a family member prior to any normal communication. Women's intuition, synchronicity, on and on it goes, the world is awash with myriads of these harmless little stories, just on the edge of the "normal" stuff. It never really gets in the way of the "important" bits and pieces, it justs sits to one side, right on the very edge of our peripheral vision, ready to be noticed if we choose to do so ...

Frank

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Old 1st November 2012, 11:12 PM   #65
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Frank,

I am reading frustration...I feel that you believe that we all possess abilities that go beyond the physical - and that you are experiencing difficulties convincing others of these powers. It is as though you are on a different planet, no, a different side of this planet. I see you in a vast land with few people and broad wildernesses. Animals that look like rabbits the size of a man are nearby, but they stand upright.

In the end it isn't worth the wasted breath to argue these things...beliefs (sorry mods) are just that. Buy into them if you like, or not. In the end the believers will only be persuaded otherwise by themselves, and the skeptics already have found their answer. G'day mate!
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Old 2nd November 2012, 12:42 AM   #66
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I now believe in tangled electrons but no one on earth can explain why they act as they do , with no "earthly" or measurable connection between themselves. This is just a thought provoker,I'm not here to prove I'm right or any crap like that. Have a good day gentlemen
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Old 2nd November 2012, 01:18 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by kevinahcc20 View Post
In the end it isn't worth the wasted breath to argue these things...beliefs (sorry mods) are just that. Buy into them if you like, or not. In the end the believers will only be persuaded otherwise by themselves, and the skeptics already have found their answer. G'day mate!
Yep, it's not worth frothing at the mouth about these things, , as already stated there are a vast number of "pleasures" in the "ordinary" world, plenty enough to keep us busy. There are lots of people who deeply immerse themselves in this otherworld stuff, and it doesn't get them anywhere, they're no closer to paradise, nirvana or anything else than the James Randi's and friends.

Of course, you should have picked the clues, I can do some of the paranormal stuff myself, if I'm in the mood ... . So what, it hasn't upended my world, it's just another bit of me, like someone being pretty damned good with the yo-yo, to be pulled out of the pocket at an appropriate moment to entertain, or help someone along a bit ...

Cheers,
Frank

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Old 2nd November 2012, 06:02 AM   #68
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they're no closer to paradise, nirvana or anything else
Then again, they might be.
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at an appropriate moment to entertain
But not be seriously researched.
(Are you a mentalist or a psychic? Don't obfuscate that important issue stated earlier.)

If the subjectivists would simply state their position in a non-objective way, there would be a lot less of the sort of thing going on in that "new interconnect" thread. I doubt that will occur, though, because as soon as there is "a foot in the door," the next step will be "My subjectivity is more objective than your subjectivity." That is, or rather points toward, the evil that resides there. It is best avoided (hence forum rules against).
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Old 2nd November 2012, 07:59 AM   #69
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(Are you a mentalist or a psychic? Don't obfuscate that important issue stated earlier.)
Most probably the latter ... it's really about having a strong feeling or hunch about something, which could have been picked up all sorts of ways. I don't get the ones who prattle on at a ferocious rate while doing readings: a thought just comes in, and I mentally weigh it, does it feel "right" or am I trying to force a fit with my rational knowledge of the situation. If it's a decent pick-up, however it was done, then the gut feeling that it's right gets stronger ...

Yes, research at the moment, especially the way it's done, is probably a complete waste of time ...

Glad I never got onto the cable trip, well, did at the start, but have got the good results, that please me, with bog standard stuff, with just a few secret herb and spices added on ...

Frank
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Old 2nd November 2012, 08:01 AM   #70
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In the end it isn't worth the wasted breath to argue these things...beliefs (sorry mods) are just that. Buy into them if you like, or not. In the end the believers will only be persuaded otherwise by themselves, and the skeptics already have found their answer. G'day mate!
Hi Kevin,

I'm not interested at all in psychics; many of them have been exposed as frauds and none that I know off have been able to demonstrate their powers under controlled conditions.

Still, the results of laboratory studies of "paranormal" phenomena in ordinary subjects are a different matter. Despite of all the problems with lack of reproducibility, there are many apparently well-controlled experiments that showed highly significant results and in the meta-analysis of psychokinesis experiments (see the 1989 Radin and Nelson paper, http://www.alice.id.tue.nl/reference...elson-1989.pdf ) none of the alternative explanations of sceptics were found to explain this.

I would very much like to know the cause of this, and whether or not studying these phenomena will eventually lead to a scientific revolution. As the progress in parapsychology is rather slow I doubt if will live long enough to hear the final answer.

Best regards,
Marcel
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