Psychic pair fail scientific test - Page 20 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Member Areas > The Lounge

The Lounge A place to talk about almost anything but politics and religion.

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10th November 2012, 08:51 PM   #191
SY is offline SY  United States
diyAudio Moderator
 
SY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Chicagoland
Blog Entries: 1
The Dragon In My Garage
by Carl Sagan


"A fire-breathing dragon lives in my garage"

Suppose (I'm following a group therapy approach by the psychologist Richard Franklin) I seriously make such an assertion to you. Surely you'd want to check it out, see for yourself. There have been innumerable stories of dragons over the centuries, but no real evidence. What an opportunity!

"Show me," you say. I lead you to my garage. You look inside and see a ladder, empty paint cans, an old tricycle -- but no dragon.

"Where's the dragon?" you ask.

"Oh, she's right here," I reply, waving vaguely. "I neglected to mention that she's an invisible dragon."

You propose spreading flour on the floor of the garage to capture the dragon's footprints.

"Good idea," I say, "but this dragon floats in the air."

Then you'll use an infrared sensor to detect the invisible fire.

"Good idea, but the invisible fire is also heatless."

You'll spray-paint the dragon and make her visible.

"Good idea, but she's an incorporeal dragon and the paint won't stick." And so on. I counter every physical test you propose with a special explanation of why it won't work.

Now, what's the difference between an invisible, incorporeal, floating dragon who spits heatless fire and no dragon at all? If there's no way to disprove my contention, no conceivable experiment that would count against it, what does it mean to say that my dragon exists? Your inability to invalidate my hypothesis is not at all the same thing as proving it true. Claims that cannot be tested, assertions immune to disproof are veridically worthless, whatever value they may have in inspiring us or in exciting our sense of wonder. What I'm asking you to do comes down to believing, in the absence of evidence, on my say-so. The only thing you've really learned from my insistence that there's a dragon in my garage is that something funny is going on inside my head. You'd wonder, if no physical tests apply, what convinced me. The possibility that it was a dream or a hallucination would certainly enter your mind. But then, why am I taking it so seriously? Maybe I need help. At the least, maybe I've seriously underestimated human fallibility. Imagine that, despite none of the tests being successful, you wish to be scrupulously open-minded. So you don't outright reject the notion that there's a fire-breathing dragon in my garage. You merely put it on hold. Present evidence is strongly against it, but if a new body of data emerge you're prepared to examine it and see if it convinces you. Surely it's unfair of me to be offended at not being believed; or to criticize you for being stodgy and unimaginative -- merely because you rendered the Scottish verdict of "not proved."

Imagine that things had gone otherwise. The dragon is invisible, all right, but footprints are being made in the flour as you watch. Your infrared detector reads off-scale. The spray paint reveals a jagged crest bobbing in the air before you. No matter how skeptical you might have been about the existence of dragons -- to say nothing about invisible ones -- you must now acknowledge that there's something here, and that in a preliminary way it's consistent with an invisible, fire-breathing dragon.

Now another scenario: Suppose it's not just me. Suppose that several people of your acquaintance, including people who you're pretty sure don't know each other, all tell you that they have dragons in their garages -- but in every case the evidence is maddeningly elusive. All of us admit we're disturbed at being gripped by so odd a conviction so ill-supported by the physical evidence. None of us is a lunatic. We speculate about what it would mean if invisible dragons were really hiding out in garages all over the world, with us humans just catching on. I'd rather it not be true, I tell you. But maybe all those ancient European and Chinese myths about dragons weren't myths at all.

Gratifyingly, some dragon-size footprints in the flour are now reported. But they're never made when a skeptic is looking. An alternative explanation presents itself. On close examination it seems clear that the footprints could have been faked. Another dragon enthusiast shows up with a burnt finger and attributes it to a rare physical manifestation of the dragon's fiery breath. But again, other possibilities exist. We understand that there are other ways to burn fingers besides the breath of invisible dragons. Such "evidence" -- no matter how important the dragon advocates consider it -- is far from compelling. Once again, the only sensible approach is tentatively to reject the dragon hypothesis, to be open to future physical data, and to wonder what the cause might be that so many apparently sane and sober people share the same strange delusion.
__________________
You might be screaming "No, no, no" and all they hear is "Who wants cake?" Let me tell you something: They all do. They all want cake.- Wilford Brimley
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th November 2012, 08:55 PM   #192
fas42 is offline fas42  Australia
diyAudio Member
 
fas42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NSW, Australia
Blog Entries: 11
One thing I find hilarious is when sceptics attempt to "explain" some peculiar occurrence, how they manage to contrive the most remarkably contorted explanation of how all the aspects can originate - reminds of those individuals who put their left foot behind their head and simultaneously wrap their right arm completely around their waist ...

Eh, eh, what's that ???! The earth is not the centre of the universe?! I'll have you know some of our age's greatest minds have conclusively demonstrated that there is a perfectly reasonable explanation for the movement of the spheres ... humphh ...

Frank
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th November 2012, 09:07 PM   #193
fas42 is offline fas42  Australia
diyAudio Member
 
fas42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NSW, Australia
Blog Entries: 11
But, if every society has a version of the dragon in the garage, if a tribe deep in the jungle, never encountered before by "civilised" scientists, has stories which immediately evoke the image of that dragon, one then does tend to become a little curious ...

Of course, being rational, one then postulates something like, a very ancient group of individuals carefully visited every tribal grouping on earth in olden times, and instilled this "fairytale" set of ideas in their skulls over a period of generations. Excuse me, while I extricate my left foot from its uncomfortable position ...

Frank
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th November 2012, 09:12 PM   #194
fas42 is offline fas42  Australia
diyAudio Member
 
fas42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NSW, Australia
Blog Entries: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by SY View Post
... and to wonder what the cause might be that so many apparently sane and sober people share the same strange delusion.
The good thing about being a scientist is knowing that one is open minded ...

Frank
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th November 2012, 09:27 PM   #195
M Gregg is offline M Gregg  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
M Gregg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: UK
Quote:
to be open to future physical data, and to wonder what the cause might be that so many apparently sane and sober people share the same strange delusion.
It dosen't sit easily with me either..however what I experienced is here...as is..

Regards
M. Gregg
__________________
What is the sound of one hand clapping?
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th November 2012, 10:21 PM   #196
diyAudio Member
 
auplater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: KyOhWVa tristate
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wavebourn View Post
You too. Except, you believe that your beliefs are scientifically proven, while he believes he knows something that you don't because in order to know what he knows you will have to challenge your comforting beliefs.
and why is that? I'm not trying to proove anything. You don't know my belief (or lack thereof) system.

I may not have "comforting beliefs". If I had I probably would never have received patents on my "unconventional" ideas many moons ago.

I simply discount mindless faith based nonsense, that's all... seems to be some here, unbecoming to this forum
__________________
"...His brain is squirming like a toad..." Jim Morrison
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th November 2012, 12:05 AM   #197
diyAudio Member
 
Wavebourn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Send a message via Skype™ to Wavebourn
Quote:
Originally Posted by auplater View Post
I simply discount mindless faith based nonsense, that's all... seems to be some here, unbecoming to this forum
The same way like other people who have incompatible beliefs do.

But they often don't say about them aloud.


Click the image to open in full size.
__________________
The Devil is not so terrible as his math model is!
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th November 2012, 12:15 AM   #198
diyAudio Member
 
kevinahcc20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Farmington Hills, MI USA
Conversely crazy people seem like dumb people to smart people.
__________________
Kevin(ahcc20)...I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy!
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th November 2012, 03:06 AM   #199
Cassiel is offline Cassiel  Libya
diyAudio Member
 
Cassiel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Madrid
Hmm...dumb people can't afford to be crazy. They can't lose their minds, there's nothing to lose there really - just a sweet nothingness. No... to go crazy you need a mind that thinks. The more it thinks the crazier it goes. Haha. Some threads make me lose my natural balance for a moment or two.
__________________
Making friends
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th November 2012, 06:18 AM   #200
diyAudio Member
 
Wavebourn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Send a message via Skype™ to Wavebourn
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cassiel View Post
Hmm...dumb people can't afford to be crazy. They can't lose their minds, there's nothing to lose there really - just a sweet nothingness. No... to go crazy you need a mind that thinks. The more it thinks the crazier it goes. Haha. Some threads make me lose my natural balance for a moment or two.
We, Siberian bear farmers, don't have that natural balance, and don't subscribe to that ultimate realities. If The Bear is the master in Taiga, it's fine. But if a man with a rifle is the master in Taiga, so be it.

What to be afraid to loose except old boring beliefs in any case?
__________________
The Devil is not so terrible as his math model is!
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bias test fail rman Analogue Source 2 19th April 2012 03:56 AM
Psychic computer shows your thoughts c2cthomas The Lounge 5 4th December 2009 10:44 PM
Pair Dale 250 watt / 8 ohm test Resistors Badge Swap Meet 1 21st August 2008 11:04 PM
MBOW1 pair withBirdseye Maple plus extra test cabs Al Garay Swap Meet 3 30th August 2005 04:08 PM
please Help,im gonna fail my sound test! napolean Everything Else 6 25th August 2005 11:25 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 01:18 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2