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Old 6th September 2012, 10:42 PM   #151
tvrgeek is offline tvrgeek  United States
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My original plan, drawn up with the help of professional financial advisers, was two years ago. Now, I am hoping my health holds out for 10 more years. My wife is retired, but not by choice, by the economy. If you are a member of AARP and not working, you are retired, not unemployed.

Edwards Deming, May he RIP. Just keep all Phil Crosby's books out of circulation. Posters do not process control make.
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Old 6th September 2012, 11:09 PM   #152
tvrgeek is offline tvrgeek  United States
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Originally Posted by BudP View Post
Anyone here heard of Edward Demming? He is the sole reason that manufacturing was able to move offshore. His QC and manufacturing process teachings were utterly ignored by the US manufacturers, until the Japanese declared him a national treasure and subscribed to his mandates.

The US response was to move mfg rather than learn something new. The first to move are the most successful today. Without Demming, Singers flounder in Mexico would have been true of all other attempts at off shore manufacture, in places where there were no middle class bred managers of manufacturing.

Until we actually implement Demming's proposals in the US we will not be able to compete for manufacturing in the world economy.

Bud

Not quite the same history I think I know. SPC was developed here during the war. This is how we had B25's rolling off the line. SPC was wide spread. The problem was after the war the demand for goods was so high, people would buy anything so bad managers went back to AQL or worse. So Edwards went to Japan to help put their phone system back on their feet. Read Taguchi.

By the late 70's those of us in manufacturing "rediscovered" process control. It was about a 20 year gap. ( or 20 year head start for Japan depending on how yo look at it) Some took a little longer like where I was. Our focus really got sharp at the point of chapter 11. We got very good at it. Price and Waterman did a lot to convert peoples minds.

When I had to move East in the late 80's into an area dominated by military procurement, surprise! AQL or worse. Ironic, Edwards lived but 10 miles away. I could not get a job as a QE but had to go back into field service. As long as the government procurement offices would accept crap for stupid prices, there was no reason to change. We have the same symptoms in software development. Bad incentives from bad contracts results in bad products. What is really sad is the programmers do care.

I would suggest quality problems are now driven by the consumer shopping for only by price, accepting "durable goods" to be disposable, and by the quarterly report. It prevents investment for the long run. No quarter target, dead meat. Companies have 3 month plans, not 20 year plans. Another theory is we are too rich. We can afford to replace things, so we have no incentive to buy quality.

OK, my way of implementing capitalism:

I won't buy a GE product because they build junk and treat their customers like garbage.
I won't buy another BMW for about the same reasons.
I wont buy Creative because they won't fix known problems.
I won't buy Sony because every single one I have owned failed
I hate Oracle, EMC, and IBM for their arrogance, not their products. Red hat is climbing on that peak too.
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Old 6th September 2012, 11:19 PM   #153
M Gregg is offline M Gregg  United Kingdom
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Don't forget,

TQC, SPC, Kaizen, Lean, BIT<<<I don't know weather to laugh or cry..
The amount of torture these inflicted on the working guy...the pursuit of perfection in production process...
Most companies used them as a tool to wind down companies take the product overseas and reduce labour costs cutting manning levels..

Regards
M. Gregg
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Old 6th September 2012, 11:30 PM   #154
BudP is offline BudP  United States
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Thank you TVRGREEK, I knew someone would have a more complete history than I do.

I just implement in a tiny transformer company that exists to build guitar amp transformers, telephone transformers and the odd sprinkle of high performance audio reproduction transformers thrown in. I have proven conclusively that I cannot function in a high stress environment, hence I don't. However, I am still in business and have had contracts over the years to come in and "straighten out" other transformer companies. The first few months are always spent in educating the management in actual business practices that work. After that I and the plant people have fun together.

Bud
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Old 7th September 2012, 01:02 AM   #155
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The 2008 kleptocracy might, in a few tens of years, prove to have been beneficial. The effect has been to inflate the money supply by huge amounts,
The effect of inflating the money supply is to devalue the money already circulating. For the average American (and others) who are deeply in debt this is advantageous, because a fixed debt can be repaid with less money. For the few of us who have saved and planned for our retirement our savings are worth about 70% of what they were 10 years ago, assuming no loss of principal. If the trend continues, it will be far less in a few more years.

The company I work for, who pioneered the use of SPC in the US electronics manufacturing industry 25 years ago has divested, spun off, laid off, or ceased operations in every market they were in except for two. They shed 100,000 employees in a 10 year period. Somehow, I managed to stay. Now a world market leader in their remaining businesses, the employment outlook is relatively stable.

In the process the pension promises made early in my careers have been shed. The pension fund is below funding limits......thats OK, the government will bail it out The retiree health care plan is being reduced.

Now......when can any of us afford to retire??????
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Old 7th September 2012, 01:20 AM   #156
AJT is offline AJT  Philippines
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacco vermeulen View Post
Deming
i guess no one can be a prophet in his hometown....
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Old 7th September 2012, 04:03 AM   #157
TheGimp is offline TheGimp  United States
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I also remember "Zero Defects" as a program. Great in theory but I've never seen it implemented effectively except possibly at TI in the early 80s.

I remember 18% defect rates in 74xx logic at incoming inspection. We had component test fixtures and tested every single incoming component.

The 5-TI PLC used nearly 270 ICs. Without 100% component testing there would have effectively been a 100% defect rate in manufacturing.

Quality isn't what it used to be, thank god.
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Old 7th September 2012, 06:44 AM   #158
AJT is offline AJT  Philippines
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the JIT was a big thing in the mid 80's.....we had to redesign the production lines so that "just in time" production ensured zero inventory......
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Old 7th September 2012, 07:32 AM   #159
M Gregg is offline M Gregg  United Kingdom
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I remember JIT,

Being bought in the company, it almost shut in the first few months because the components that arrived JIT were faulty....The reason was the company providing the components implemented JIT as well and they had faulty stock to make the components..

So the company made the component supplier responsible for the cost of the loss, the component company went bust..Then they struggled to get components so they bought from overseas..

They thought it was so good they implemented business teams in there own company so, they could make each area of there own company responsible for JIT (cost)at component assembly..That went bust as well so they bought the self made parts from a sister company..

That lasted until They bought in lean manufacturing and the company couldn't hide the stock they had (stock piled because of the cost of non JIT delivery)Due to the components being faulty for the JIT production so they implemented (Total Quality Culture..TQC) to make people responsible for the failure of JIT..so that went bust as well..

To try to pay off the redundancy for the company they made the pension fund a company asset..guess what happened..

The Government bought in a pension protection plan to cover the loss....Its a bit shaky as well now because the same thing is happening to often..
I wonder if that will go bust as well..

Regards
M. Gregg
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Old 7th September 2012, 08:38 AM   #160
M Gregg is offline M Gregg  United Kingdom
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Just another thought,


The same company decided to implement JIT in the stores that stored the parts like motors electronic components etc..so they made the suppliers responsible for the JIT of a breakdown in production..all other stock was cut down to a minimum level...

The situation went from bad to worse eg we had one relay on stock and we had a panel burn up we needed three..the suppliers had one on stock..because the stores requisit was one the supplier had done there job and provided one..the company then lost six hours production on a prime mover that shut down half the other equipment in the company..

This happened so many times we lost count... (The stock level remained the same because it was JIT..
The next thing was a modification of all the equipment to PLC, however the stores stock was not updated so the first time we had a burn up they had to send for a part from Germany to replace it..

The next was a complete factory update it closed for shut down and when production arrived two weeks later most of the equipment was new...I walked over to a machine and asked the guy why it wasn't running....he said he had never seen it before and didn't know how to run it...however the managers had told him to read the manual which looked like the encyclopaedia Britannica
..he had half an hour before start up..

Regards
M. Gregg
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