Behe and Evolution- was Tuberolling - diyAudio
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Old 14th October 2003, 06:06 PM   #1
SY is offline SY  United States
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Default OT

Don't take Behe too seriously. He ignores the basic mechanism of evolution, the selection part of "natural selection." In his deep desire to invoke a Designer, he mistakes things not yet known for things not knowable. "Darwin's Black Box" is a particularly poor book.

We now return you to the Secular Electronics Channel.
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Old 14th October 2003, 09:52 PM   #2
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"Don't take Behe too seriously. He ignores the basic mechanism of evolution, the selection part of "natural selection." In his deep desire to invoke a Designer, he mistakes things not yet known for things not knowable. "Darwin's Black Box" is a particularly poor book.
We now return you to the Secular Electronics Channel."

Sy, you can't have natural selection if the body doesn't live long enough to procreate. And many systems are either all or nothing, that seems to be his point. If "partially improved" life cannot procreate, then the "improvement" does not continue. And the chance of a whole system coming together, all at once in a single entity, is impossible. That is why he used scientific odds. You can't have certain partial systems and survive.

His book is brilliantly written, and completely undermines the credibility of evolution of life.

His book does require a higher degree of knowledge in physics/chemistry if one is to delve deeply into the book, though.

Sorry Sy, but couldn't let you get away with that comment.

Now back to your regular scheduled program.

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Old 14th October 2003, 09:58 PM   #3
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Don't take Behe too seriously
Sadly, this may be that exclusive topic when i side with SY.
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Old 14th October 2003, 09:59 PM   #4
SY is offline SY  United States
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I did read it. I'm unimpressed. So are the vast majority of biologists and paleontologists. And, for the record, I have the requisite "high degree of knowledge" in physics and chemistry.

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Sadly, this may be that exclusive topic when i side with SY.
Proof of a god right there!
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Old 14th October 2003, 10:07 PM   #5
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Default I do find it...

incredibly difficult to believe you cannot understand this concept.

Your going to tell me that if the immune system isn't working, the body is going to survive, and his ancestors (with only a partial immune system that doesn't work) until a complete working immune system is in place?

Don't be silly. Without a complete immune system man would have been extinct along time ago from disease.

And there are alot more systems than the immune that have to be working perfectly.

And I haven't even mentioned prophesies yet.

All I can say is it takes more faith in what you believe than in what I believe.
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Old 14th October 2003, 10:09 PM   #6
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Hi,

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And, for the record, I have the requisite "high degree of knowledge" in physics and chemistry.
I've never been too impressed with papers...

People, and their ability to look beyond the limits of the printed word and common conventions are what makes life a very interesting journey.

Cheers,
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Old 14th October 2003, 10:18 PM   #7
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Default Prophecies

I saw a program on PBS one time about sex, and the last comment made was that the only sin is the sin of celibracy.

All they/we had to do was look around the world.

OOPs almost forgot. How did the two sexes begin? Hmmm let's see.

Well, one started to develop female organs. But there were no male organs, so I guess she just duplicated herself (happens in nature). But how did she happen to develop eggs? I guess from frogs. Oh that is right, I think one kind of frog can change sexes.

Well, finally she did, but what how to store them.

Oh well, another had to develop male organs, just the right ones, and sperm too. I guess he duplicated himself too. And the sperm had to be the right temperature and die within a certain time after entering the female. I guess natural selection made someone just produce sperm that dies soon.

Of course, it was alot easier to just duplicate themselves to begin with, they could be guaranteed offspring, whereas men and women might have more problems. Hmmmm.

Wow I am getting confused and sex is alot more complicated than I thought. But I guess evolution just happened.

Wonder where matter and energy came from? What happened before the big bang?
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Old 15th October 2003, 12:55 AM   #8
SY is offline SY  United States
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I suggest you read some competent popular treatments on the very topics you talk about. A good place to start is Richard Dawkins's "Climbing Mount Improbable." Very readable. His series of books on genes, most notably "The Extended Phenotype", is gold.

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I've never been too impressed with papers...
Me neither. And having collected an array of letters to follow my name, I have earned the right to disrespect papers and degrees.
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Old 15th October 2003, 03:35 AM   #9
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Default Re: Prophecies

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Originally posted by Positron


Wonder where matter and energy came from? What happened before the big bang?

What happened before god?
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Old 15th October 2003, 07:45 AM   #10
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At least evolution is a theory rather than a faith. As such it can be challenged by logic. Over the course of time, it has robustly defended it's position.
The development of sexual reproduction is just one of the challenges it faces. Indeed without the knowledge of reptilian temperature sexual selection, it would be impossible to conclude that mamals and avians had common ancestors (since the sex selection gene is on avians' equivalent of the X chromosome), it would seem we and they developed sexual reproduction completely independently. A highly unlikely senario.
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