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Old 5th May 2012, 11:27 PM   #21
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My SE amp doesn't sound anything like a barbecue with chorizzo and longaniza, although I have grilled chorizo in the past and it was good.
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Old 6th May 2012, 01:36 AM   #22
TheGimp is offline TheGimp  United States
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A poorly designed SE amp is as bad as a poorly designed PP amp.

In all cases the goal should be to add or subtract as little to/from the original sound during reproduction as is possible.
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Old 6th May 2012, 08:42 AM   #23
dady is offline dady  Argentina
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pauldune View Post

Are you trying to say that SE amps can't reproduce classic music?
I strongly disagree...

Paul
You can read whatever you want.
Did I say that?
Or that is that you understund.

Once in 1998 i went from Argentina to Miami to look for a lowther speaker (now i live on spain) And knew a man that sales this precious things. This man had many amps, all vacuum tubes, I remember the MC275 and more than twenty similar monsters. This amps full the living monster room but he mentioned that He had there in the "patio" one SE with WE300B, the transformers was builded on japan for a master winder experts, the iron maybe weight 10kg each, This man was maybe a little deaf but he said, that amp is waste. For curiosity I asked for connect it to the same musical program we were listening. I remember Harry Belafonte singing Calypso in a flea market got record. I listened that Mr. Belafonte was there in this room, singing for me. In this moment I recognized a miracle. In this moment I said to me: "I want this and i will spend the enough for get it"
But the time pass and many things happen and got this kind of amp. I listened SE and spend and read and project and listen. Now i say: I can listen classic music with them but Chamber music, tango, jazz, vocal, Soloists and specially music with no big headroom. When I need to listen Symphonic music I need at least biamp and pushpull nor odd neither even harmonics.
An Hifi man need at least five amps in the living room. Some day I awake in the morning and connect my SE, the next week I want to listen spaghetti and feel the needs of connect another taste. And connect my SE to Bruckner for a while I miss a real and alive music. But this is no here, and I miss it.
Maybe you have a SE. Maybe you paid a eye and the other half for it. And now you justify saying is the proper form to listen classic music.
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Old 6th May 2012, 08:45 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Koster View Post
Fascinating!

Can you please point me to a reference that shows a measurement of this phenomenon? I would like to see the nonlinearity of the magnetization curve without DC bias.

Thanks!
Somehow I cannot believe that you, of all people, didnt know this...
I knew the theory, and cannot find a flaw in it, but at the same time I am not able to measure or detect any hysteresis based distortion in my Parafeed SE amps. And with parafeed and SE it should be obvious.

What am I missing? You have an explanation?

Paul
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Old 6th May 2012, 08:59 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dady View Post
You can read whatever you want.
Did I say that?
Or that is that you understund.

Once in 1998 i went from Argentina to Miami to look for a lowther speaker (now i live on spain) And knew a man that sales this precious things. This man had many amps, all vacuum tubes, I remember the MC275 and more than twenty similar monsters. This amps full the living monster room but he mentioned that He had there in the "patio" one SE with WE300B, the transformers was builded on japan for a master winder experts, the iron maybe weight 10kg each, This man was maybe a little deaf but he said, that amp is waste. For curiosity I asked for connect it to the same musical program we were listening. I remember Harry Belafonte singing Calypso in a flea market got record. I listened that Mr. Belafonte was there in this room, singing for me. In this moment I recognized a miracle. In this moment I said to me: "I want this and i will spend the enough for get it"
But the time pass and many things happen and got this kind of amp. I listened SE and spend and read and project and listen. Now i say: I can listen classic music with them but Chamber music, tango, jazz, vocal, Soloists and specially music with no big headroom. When I need to listen Symphonic music I need at least biamp and pushpull nor odd neither even harmonics.
An Hifi man need at least five amps in the living room. Some day I awake in the morning and connect my SE, the next week I want to listen spaghetti and feel the needs of connect another taste. And connect my SE to Bruckner for a while I miss a real and alive music. But this is no here, and I miss it.
Maybe you have a SE. Maybe you paid a eye and the other half for it. And now you justify saying is the proper form to listen classic music.
I have a SE indeed, but thats not the reason I gave the reply...
I really didnt understand your story, and I thought thats what you meant.

But if you mean that you should use a different amp for all kinds of music, I can understand that. But I also think, that how better the amp, the more "versatile" it gets.
There are SE amps suitable for symphonic. (and hardrock house metal and so on...)

Paul
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Old 6th May 2012, 09:23 AM   #26
dady is offline dady  Argentina
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Sorry for my poor English language, I tried to mean that I listen many amps SE, one of the best, and like them so much. In this moment I recognize the timbre of SE and fall in love with it. I mention it for express how I was impressive with SE. Maybe is redundant to say so much. And now I feel a different taste. Probably better because I listen much much music, Rock, jazz, classic, opera and chamber. All across of different equipment and combination of them, Bi triamp, Full range, etc. Horns and multispeakers systems. Some days I love the reproduction in the Solid state Arcam alpha 7 with the cheap and stupid sony loudspeaker I listen in my bedroom, them I going to my official place in the living room and find another whether.
Some days I like to listen many second and even harmonics and I use my SE, another days I want to listen sharp, edgy brillant and with more dynamic range.
Some days i change the feedback to my amp, the another day i put a little more or less, and I like it anyway.
Music across one electronic reproduction system is a subjective experience.
But the real music reproduction is alive.
I hope I could explain better
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Old 6th May 2012, 09:39 AM   #27
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No problem I understand it a lot better now! I'm always wrestling with the same problem, my native language bleeding through my english...

Although I understand it, my wife would kill me before I could put even more amplifiers in the living room. Only thing to do is improve my main amp until it is good enough for all kinds of music!

Paul
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Old 6th May 2012, 05:34 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dady View Post
An Hifi man need at least five amps in the living room.
Not necessarily. SE amp may have issues with producing punchy bass depending on its design and the speakers it's driving but that can be solved with 2 amps, not 5. Solution? Active bi-amp. Mid to high drivers with SE amp and low frequency driver with PP amp. Set up can be tricky but once the user gets over the learning curve, it's golden. Highly recommend it.
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Old 7th May 2012, 01:05 AM   #29
popilin is offline popilin  Argentina
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Hi dady
Nice to see you around here.
Remove from your head the idea that the SE has only second harmonic distortion, look at what it says Pano in post # 5.

If what bothers you of the SE is the low damping factor, put it negative feedback.
I don't like feedback for "ideological reasons" : You can't correct in the past an event of the present, travel into the past is not posible.

If you don't like the subtlety of the 300B, go to a big boy like a 845, I like brute force because of the damping factor.
SE OPT are a real PITA, but not impossible.
I have a double C lamination, NOSS, and I'm preparing to winding say 7000 turns of the primary.

Best regards
Popilín
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Old 7th May 2012, 06:30 AM   #30
dady is offline dady  Argentina
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Hi Popilin, always is nice to each other to see people of my so faraway country, but specially you.
I remove the idea of the "only pairs" in SE. Norman Crowst talked about eighty one...
I agree with many of the builders and co-blogers but I listen music again every day, more than one hour. Is impossible to listen symphonic music for my brain and my tinnitus disease further in a theatre with orchestra. But many of this music listening are of symphonic one and I recognize the monster quantity of sound that our equipments build in a freeway form.
Multiamplification is the right sense. At least Biamp for avoid inter modulation that always sum to the rest of "chorizo".
I formerly declare that the liveness of SE give a "you are there" and I feel there and impressed but is not for all.
Music across an electronic device is a subjetive experience , some times I putt more negative feedback and feel more damping and wide sense and punchy bass but two days after I miss the liveness of no NFB.
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