Car Talk - Page 11 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Member Areas > The Lounge

The Lounge A place to talk about almost anything but politics and religion.

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10th March 2012, 04:15 PM   #101
dvv is offline dvv  Serbia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Belgrade, Serbia
Quote:
Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
@dvv,

We are a long way from such , maybe KERS on all 4 wheels with an 600cc gas/ diesel eng pulling 180mpg . Full electric is not possible with current battery technology and large carbon footprint.

Bio-gas is also an alternative (algae) would allow 20:1 cr , clean breathable emissions and leaner mixtures, TQ of diesel with gasolene hp .
What's "KERS"?

Full electric is possible, of course, but the range is very small. Agreed, batteries are the key problem, however, I suspect that when pushed far and strongly enough, the industry could do better - MUCH better.

I think if the auto industry standardized, the push forward would be quicker. At least, the battery manufacturers would know what they are aiming for.

As for bio fuels, I understand the Norwegian process included livestock dung as well. Algae are nice, but livestock dung is even more accessible.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th March 2012, 06:40 PM   #102
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
diyAudio Member
 
a.wayne's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Front Row Center
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Darwin View Post
Could you elucidate a bit more since I can not make any sense from this post at all?
Not sure I understand what it is you want to know ... You made a statement about emissions , I asked if you are comparing bio-fuels to bio-fuels ..

Quote:
Originally Posted by dvv View Post
What's "KERS"?

KERS.... Kinetic energy recovery system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:
Originally Posted by dvv View Post
Full electric is possible, of course, but the range is very small. Agreed, batteries are the key problem, however, I suspect that when pushed far and strongly enough, the industry could do better - MUCH better.

I think if the auto industry standardized, the push forward would be quicker. At least, the battery manufacturers would know what they are aiming for.

As for bio fuels, I understand the Norwegian process included livestock dung as well. Algae are nice, but livestock dung is even more accessible.
Algae is where the big money is going .... Bio-ethanol is a viable fuel IMO, but would require different engine specs, if done it would be better than going with electric cars .

Much smaller carbon foot print ...

Last edited by a.wayne; 10th March 2012 at 06:44 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th March 2012, 09:31 PM   #103
tvrgeek is offline tvrgeek  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Md
Quote:
Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
Not sure I understand what it is you want to know ... You made a statement about emissions , I asked if you are comparing bio-fuels to bio-fuels ..




KERS.... Kinetic energy recovery system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Algae is where the big money is going .... Bio-ethanol is a viable fuel IMO, but would require different engine specs, if done it would be better than going with electric cars .

Much smaller carbon foot print ...
Algae, seaweed, switchgrass, no one knows yet. Quite debatable if it is a lower carbon footprint with today's processes. It also depends on where the electricity comes from. It is darn hard to overcome the volume/weight density of a liquid hydrocarbon and the ability to just fill a tank. On the other hand, an electric motor is far more efficient at acceleration and variable speed than a heat engine. ( max torque at stall vs max torque at peak RPM) Every time you convert from one form to another, you lose. Every time you transport you lose. Darn complicated and none of the "sides" will give any straight answers. Without being an insider, we are just blowing smoke out of somewhere.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th March 2012, 09:44 PM   #104
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Virginia
Quote:
Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
Bio-ethanol is a viable fuel IMO, but would require different engine specs
You didn't see yet on cars the Flex Fuel labels? Those can use bio-ethanol that you talk about. They are some millions on streets and they use almost the same engine. Sure, if it would be tunned exclusivelly for ethanol, it might be more efficient, but there are not enough stations for that.
Problem is that producing all those "bio" fuels is VERY inefficient, require lots of land, water... and require lots of heat to process.
In the end is not that much "cleaner".

Last edited by SoNic_real_one; 10th March 2012 at 09:47 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th March 2012, 10:37 PM   #105
CBS240 is offline CBS240  United States
diyAudio Member
 
CBS240's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: K-town
Exchangeable fuel cell modules would be the cleanest source, provided that they were 'charged' at solar stations, geo, or other 'clean' energy. Besides, an electric motor/servo drive system is waaaayyyyy more efficient than the typical internal combution engine with all those moving parts.....

although this solution does not sound cheap to get started in mass production. But then niether is the new US government funded 100K+ car, produced in a forgien country BTW, particularly when it doen't even work!
__________________
All the trouble I've ever been in started out as fun......

Last edited by CBS240; 10th March 2012 at 10:48 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th March 2012, 11:28 PM   #106
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
diyAudio Member
 
a.wayne's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Front Row Center
Quote:
Originally Posted by tvrgeek View Post
Algae, seaweed, switchgrass, no one knows yet. Quite debatable if it is a lower carbon footprint with today's processes. It also depends on where the electricity comes from. It is darn hard to overcome the volume/weight density of a liquid hydrocarbon and the ability to just fill a tank. On the other hand, an electric motor is far more efficient at acceleration and variable speed than a heat engine. ( max torque at stall vs max torque at peak RPM) Every time you convert from one form to another, you lose. Every time you transport you lose. Darn complicated and none of the "sides" will give any straight answers. Without being an insider, we are just blowing smoke out of somewhere.
Algae is most viable and where most is investing. Currently ethanol from cane is the leader , but is not sustainable as an replacement, where algae can .

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoNic_real_one View Post
You didn't see yet on cars the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flexible-fuel_[B][/B]. They are some millions on streets and they use almost the same engine. Sure, if it would be tunned exclusivelly for ethanol, it might be more efficient, but there are not enough stations for that.
Problem is that producing all those "bio" fuels is VERY inefficient, require lots of land, water... and require lots of heat to process.
In the end is not that much "cleaner".
Ok .. Brainiac

They have the wrong specification for bio-ethanol, there engines are optimized for gasoline , so they are inefficient on ethanol, they are flex-fuel only due to the polemics coming out of Washington.


Bio-ethanol only makes economic sense coming from Algae...next is sugar cane...

Last edited by a.wayne; 10th March 2012 at 11:34 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th March 2012, 11:32 PM   #107
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
diyAudio Member
 
a.wayne's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Front Row Center
Currently Electric cars have 30-40% more carbon foot print than gasoline powered cars..
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th March 2012, 11:55 PM   #108
tvrgeek is offline tvrgeek  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Md
Quote:
Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
Currently Electric cars have 30-40% more carbon foot print than gasoline powered cars..
One does need to include the total life cycle. It also depends on if the electricity is from a coal plant, which most are. We also have the problem of rare earth metals. Guess why they are called "rare"?

We still need to reduce the total energy used. There is no way the world can sustain another 3 billion Chinese and a billion more Indian drivers unless we quit making 3400 Lb compact cars and 4500 Lb sport utes.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th March 2012, 12:14 AM   #109
diyAudio Member
 
theAnonymous1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Anonymityville
Quote:
Originally Posted by tvrgeek View Post
There is no way the world can sustain another 3 billion Chinese.....
^ Quote taken slightly out of context, but it reminded me of a package I mailed to Tseung Kwan O, Hong Kong today. The address format seemed off, so I was trying to research it and stumbled upon images of the destination.

Should humans really live like this? Reminds me of the Matrix......

Tiu Keng Leng, Tseung Kwan O, New Territories, Hong Kong - YouTube

Click the image to open in full size.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th March 2012, 12:53 AM   #110
tvrgeek is offline tvrgeek  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Md
Way ahead of some other places. I agree it is not on a human scale, but vastly better than half the world.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Let's talk about FLHs... Brian Steele Subwoofers 9 15th May 2010 12:37 AM
Hello and could I talk to a mod? markdesmarais Introductions 2 10th March 2009 11:07 AM
Let's talk about the concerts we saw! Bricolo Music 62 19th April 2008 02:29 PM
Let's Talk Capacitors speakerguy79 Parts 3 12th October 2006 01:42 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 12:37 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2