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Old 10th March 2012, 12:29 PM   #91
dvv is offline dvv  Serbia
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Actually, modern diesels have no visible fumes coming out of their exhaust, but as Charlie Darwin pointed out, in Europe, people use the Euro diesel version, which is a refined version of diesel.

That notwithstanding, fumes we think stink are not the very bad guys (unpleasant smelling as they are), CO2 emission is THE culprit, and here, diesels generally do better than even moder petrol engines. The difference has shrunk rather a lot after they started turbocharging the petrol engines as well as diesels, but it's still diesels in the lead.

As for availablity of diesel fuel in USA, I think that is not a problem at all. If more people asked for it, it would soon be everywhere, after all, the people at the gas station wnat to make their dollars too, and will sell what the people will buy. But I agree that is a problem for the early birds.

Regarding electric cars, there is no doubt that the future belongs to them. The only key problems we face are twofold. The technical problem is, if you think about it, really not there at all. And is in tight connection, ubillical cord like, with the economic aspect. Imagine for a moment, if you will, that by some miracle, the world manages to define say three types of batteries for passenger cars - your stop at the "petrol station", now an "electrical station", would be to stop, open up the battery compartment, deliver your empty batteries and receive charged ones in return.

This could be done RIGHT NOW.

It's not because we face a bloody standards war, because each and every company, even entire countries, would battle it out for their system to be made standard. The benefits are obvious, you get to collect the royalty in vast amounts. Philips showed the way first with the compact cassette, and then with the CD.

I can't remember which model was it, but I seem to remeber reading about somebody having a range of 460 km (or 290 miles) on batteries alone right now. I would consider that range as quite reasonable even today, it's not too far removed from regular gas station stops even today.

Mass of vehicles is till a problem, though. Batteries aside, they are still really heavy, as they must be - just look over the Euro 5 safety requirements. They impose tremendous demands on the car industry, and mass is the price you pay for reinforced bodyworks capable of absorbing very large collision forces, pedestrian friendly front ends, etc.

As an example, a current Ford Fiesta weighs in at 1,150 kilos in middle equipment group; in 1967, Ford Escort weighed in 30 kilos LESS than a Yugo, at 790 kilos. The Cosworth street legal version weighed in at 890 kilos only, so no wonder its 1.6 litre DOHC engine, delivering 122 bhp, made it a pocket rocket. The Lotus Elan, with the same engine, weighed in at 690 kilos (if memory serves), so it's advertised 0-60 mph in just 7.5 seconds was very probably quite accurate. But then, Colin Chapman wasn't just anybody.

And ultimately, quite beside the industry, trends and safety regulations, it's also us. Today, we simply will not do without a host of amenities in a car which we didn't evebn dream of 30 years ago, starting with the air con. Heck, I first wouldn't buy a tourer without an air con. That system can weigh anything from around 40 to around 80 kilos. A turbo setups, incuding the air cooler, also weighs about the same - used to be more, before they came up with variable wing geometry (actually known from the venerable "VW Bug" of airplanes, Douglas DC-3 Dakota - loved it then, love it today, a work of genius).
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Old 10th March 2012, 01:20 PM   #92
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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@DVV,

I'd Did not say a v6 was smoother , I said it was stronger , makes for better packaging and if the intent is motorsports and big BHP then it's a no brainer over a straight 6....

Diesel emissions is more harmful to the environment, I'm doing my share with a sport VW TDI wagon , avg 42mpg ..
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Old 10th March 2012, 01:24 PM   #93
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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Electric cars have too big an carbon footprint to be our future , hybrid cars will be the Main stay over the next decade. When we can have roofs made from solar panels good enuff to charge batteries and enuff regenerative charging while running , they make no sense ....

Hybrids with KERS ....
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Old 10th March 2012, 01:30 PM   #94
dvv is offline dvv  Serbia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
@DVV,

I'd Did not say a v6 was smoother , I said it was stronger , makes for better packaging and if the intent is motorsports and big BHP then it's a no brainer over a straight 6....
Please explain how is this possible. I would have thought that an engine which shares its output over 7 bearings would be quite a bit more strudy than another which does the same over 5 bearings.

Its downside is its considerably larger size than its V counterpart.

Quote:
Diesel emissions is more harmful to the environment, I'm doing my share with a sport VW TDI wagon , avg 42mpg ..
Please explain. This flies in the face of the entire Europen motor legislation.
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Old 10th March 2012, 01:38 PM   #95
dvv is offline dvv  Serbia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
Electric cars have too big an carbon footprint to be our future , hybrid cars will be the Main stay over the next decade. When we can have roofs made from solar panels good enuff to charge batteries and enuff regenerative charging while running , they make no sense ....

Hybrids with KERS ....
No doubt hybrids will be the first step towaeda fully electric - in fact, they already are.

Unfortunately, they also seem to suffer the electric bug - relatively poor range. I will never buy a car which cannot get me to my summer vacation destination in Greece, exactly 850 km (530 miles), my doorstep to hotel doorstep. This may include a stopover, which we (wife and I) will make anyway, in Macedonia, near a lake, for lunch. It also may include exchange of batteries if required along the way.

But I just love the idea of electric motors. No torque curve, maximum torque from 1 rpm. Silent. Non-emission. Then you tune your car by rewinding the electric motor(s).

Imagine the possibilities, they are mind boggling. For example, individual wheel drive, each wheel has its own e. motor - that could, after some development, imrpove on current all wheel drive quite a bit.
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Old 10th March 2012, 01:43 PM   #96
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Current european emissions regulations are nearly identical for petrol or diesel.

They are allowed the same amount of particulate matter, hydrocarbons and NOx (although for petrols it is subdivided into HC, THC and NOx but the total allowed is the same).
The only difference being that petrol cars are allowed to emit twice the amount of carbon monoxide of diesels.

So I too would like to know how diesel emissions are more harmful than petrol ones.
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Old 10th March 2012, 01:51 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvv View Post
Imagine the possibilities, they are mind boggling. For example, individual wheel drive, each wheel has its own e. motor - that could, after some development, imrpove on current all wheel drive quite a bit.
Seems we are going full circle.

Ferdinand Porsche designed and built a four-wheel drive electric car with one motor per wheel in 1899!

That was 4 years before the dutch Spijker brothers built the first 4wd car powered by an internal combustion engine in 1903, the Spyker 60HP. It was also the first ever car with a 6 cylinder motor.
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Old 10th March 2012, 02:04 PM   #98
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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Originally Posted by Charles Darwin View Post
Current european emissions regulations are nearly identical for petrol or diesel.

They are allowed the same amount of particulate matter, hydrocarbons and NOx (although for petrols it is subdivided into HC, THC and NOx but the total allowed is the same).
The only difference being that petrol cars are allowed to emit twice the amount of carbon monoxide of diesels.

So I too would like to know how diesel emissions are more harmful than petrol ones.
Comparing bio- diesel to regular gas , compare bio fuels to bio- fuels.
And full load emissions..

Fuel advance at full load on diesels is still a problem ..


.

Last edited by a.wayne; 10th March 2012 at 02:07 PM.
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Old 10th March 2012, 02:15 PM   #99
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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@dvv,

We are a long way from such , maybe KERS on all 4 wheels with an 600cc gas/ diesel eng pulling 180mpg . Full electric is not possible with current battery technology and large carbon footprint.

Bio-gas is also an alternative (algae) would allow 20:1 cr , clean breathable emissions and leaner mixtures, TQ of diesel with gasolene hp .
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Old 10th March 2012, 03:50 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
Comparing bio- diesel to regular gas , compare bio fuels to bio- fuels.
And full load emissions..

Fuel advance at full load on diesels is still a problem ..


.
Could you elucidate a bit more since I can not make any sense from this post at all?
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