Wayne, even with a supremely linear speaker with an ultra tight frequency tolerance, at low level the bass will subjectively be underwhelmed. It will be there, but will seem to be at a lower SPL than the midrange.Ditto for treble, although to a somewhat lesser level.
Because you have no idea what a customer may be listening to and under which circumstances, it's best to have the loudness as a level control, from OFF/Defeat to an arguable maximum. Perhaps not a perfect arrangement, but I can't think of a better one.
By way of illustration, what I find to be appropriate for me is on the "8" mark of my Marantz preamp, but is only "6" on a typical Yamaha integrated amp. Different takes, but happily, both adjustable. Most fixed switch Off/On loudness controls typically either fall short or overshoot the mark, according to my taste, even if they all use the volume pot center tap.
Lastly, some manufacturers (e.g. Kenwood/Trio) choose to provide only bass boost, which is unacceptable to me, I feel this debalances the overall sound, and much as I dearly love deep, clean and powerfull bass, too much of anything will usually spoil the show.
Because you have no idea what a customer may be listening to and under which circumstances, it's best to have the loudness as a level control, from OFF/Defeat to an arguable maximum. Perhaps not a perfect arrangement, but I can't think of a better one.
By way of illustration, what I find to be appropriate for me is on the "8" mark of my Marantz preamp, but is only "6" on a typical Yamaha integrated amp. Different takes, but happily, both adjustable. Most fixed switch Off/On loudness controls typically either fall short or overshoot the mark, according to my taste, even if they all use the volume pot center tap.
Lastly, some manufacturers (e.g. Kenwood/Trio) choose to provide only bass boost, which is unacceptable to me, I feel this debalances the overall sound, and much as I dearly love deep, clean and powerfull bass, too much of anything will usually spoil the show.
I have always wondered what makes a mature person expect to read on a public forum only things they agree with.Anyway , over the last few weeks we have lost two , Bongiorno and David Manley. CLass-D may win by default at this rate .....
do you in real life break contact with all acquaintances that didn't vote for the same person? that would be really weird.
not to mention that the thread has moved from class D meanwhile.
and not to mention that you mentioned class D in reply to a post by dvv which had nothing to do with class D.
well...
you mentioned people leaving because class D was mentioned.
in all honesty, if someone just packs their things and leaves at the slightest disagreement, I'm sure Internet is not for them.
like I said (and the edit timeout of that post expired long time ago so it's scripta manent) I agree that they have they problems, I wasn't even praising them.
so, you mentioning people leaving because of it simply reads like "I don't like the subject and look, my friends left too". there's really not other way to read it.
in all honesty, if someone just packs their things and leaves at the slightest disagreement, I'm sure Internet is not for them.
like I said (and the edit timeout of that post expired long time ago so it's scripta manent) I agree that they have they problems, I wasn't even praising them.
so, you mentioning people leaving because of it simply reads like "I don't like the subject and look, my friends left too". there's really not other way to read it.
Mr PP,
Sorry for the confusion, I meant Left us, as in they have left the planet, passed on , dead .....
Jim Bongiorno (Sumo, Theta, etc)
David Manley ( Manley labs, VTL)
regards,
I feel like such a retard.
I have no idea how the Stereophile article on Mr. Manley (I know who he was) passing away slipped my mind. I thought he was a member here.
I apologize for that.
the choice of words did seem a bit weird but then you mentioned class D, I didn't know what to make of it. sorry.
I have no idea how the Stereophile article on Mr. Manley (I know who he was) passing away slipped my mind. I thought he was a member here.
I apologize for that.
the choice of words did seem a bit weird but then you mentioned class D, I didn't know what to make of it. sorry.
I was surprised how my big TDLs seemed to have less bass than my old Mission 752s at low volumes. Then I measured them and saw how much 2nd and 3rd harmonic the Missions were generating at low frequencies, although the fundamental was way down on the TDLs
Maybe done to avoid idiots blowing tweeters by activating at higher volumes
I did explain my position ....
Anyway , over the last few weeks we have lost two , Bongiorno and David Manley. CLass-D may win by default at this rate .....
What do you mean "lost"?
Don't tell me James Bongiorno is no longer with us?
If so, I am REALLY sorry то hеаr thат. I have not met him personally, but I have sort of met with him via the Internet, heck, I even squeezed an Internet interview from him in 2000 or 2001, it's on TNTaudio.com.
He is one of the very few people who have profoundly impressed me. For each and every question I had for him, he provided a full and complete answer, with abundant sidelines. I have learnt much from him, for which I am forever grateful. Grumpy as he sometimes was.
This is a sad, sad day for me.
In my experinece, there's no stopping an idiot.
I have seen quite a few amps destryed by people, who have no idea what +12 dB at say 40 Hz does to an amp. All in quest of believable, often overblown bass, on speakers whit 4, 5 or 6" "bass/mid" drivers.
Mr PP,
You should know that our old buddy Wayne is a proponent of the Free Current Flow Society, given that his bass driver has an impedance of around 1 Ohm. Yep, no typo, I did say 1 (one) Ohm.
Hence, to him, any amp incapable of delivering at least 30 Amps continuous ain't no amp at all.
Talk about muscle amps ...
You should know that our old buddy Wayne is a proponent of the Free Current Flow Society, given that his bass driver has an impedance of around 1 Ohm. Yep, no typo, I did say 1 (one) Ohm.
Hence, to him, any amp incapable of delivering at least 30 Amps continuous ain't no amp at all.
Talk about muscle amps ...
Well, that depends. Mostly, what I saw was done with cheap Technics amps (very popular locally in their day), within the 25-50 WRMS range. It's not hard to imagine low power amp clipping when pushed hard during parties, especially with electronic music.
Also, most of the evil deeds were perpetrated with small loudspeakers, which by default have little or no deep bass, given that most don't have the lower two octaves. Which is why they ramp up the bass pot, trying to force out what is not there by default.
You're not likely to catch anyone with a 10" or bigger bass doing the same, or at least two 6" bass drivers in a floorstanding speaker. For example, the JBL Ti600 speakers in my wife's system can actually produce very decent bass all on their own, so the lact of any form of loudness in her HK 680 integrated amp is really no defect at all. Then again, she's a versed user, she'd never ramp anything up.
Mr PP,
You should know that our old buddy Wayne is a proponent of the Free Current Flow Society, given that his bass driver has an impedance of around 1 Ohm. Yep, no typo, I did say 1 (one) Ohm.
Hence, to him, any amp incapable of delivering at least 30 Amps continuous ain't no amp at all.
Talk about muscle amps ...
Correction , 1ohm from 300-22K ..
- Status
- Not open for further replies.