TVR,
We used both Audax and Seas drivers during production, you don't have to worry about Audax's absence , use SEA'S better company to deal with and very good drivers , find out what is acceptable as to WAF, how far from the back wall you can be , side walls and listening distance ...
I can give you suggestion's after knowing your reauirements, best to buy used and modify, takes alot of experience to do really good speakers ..
We used both Audax and Seas drivers during production, you don't have to worry about Audax's absence , use SEA'S better company to deal with and very good drivers , find out what is acceptable as to WAF, how far from the back wall you can be , side walls and listening distance ...
I can give you suggestion's after knowing your reauirements, best to buy used and modify, takes alot of experience to do really good speakers ..
Hi,
My experience has been PRECISELY the reverse.
Of course, my "playground" is rather different from yours.
For example, there is very little in speakerdom that I have heard that manages to match a 15" Tannoy Coaxial in a suitable enclosure or a Urei 811 or a JBL 4430, no matter how many ways it had.
Of course, if you mean with "2-Way" these jokes that use a 5" cone tweeter forced to do midbass duties you may well be right. But they are "faulty by design", so I prefer to studiously ignore them.
I have found that sometimes I need to go 3-Way because I wish to employ certain specific drivers that are unsuited to 2-Ways, they invariably end up much more expensive than a really good 2-Way system would be and it is arguable if they are any better because of being 3-Way.
But if getting a fieldcoil driver for example means that I have to go 3-Way (more precisely FASTAST [Fullrange And Super Tweeter And Subwoofer Technology], that is an unfiltered 8" full range driver with subwoofer and supertweeter) so be it.
I'd rather have a 15" & 2" Fieldcoil driver though.
Clearly, you have never come across a competently made 2-Way then.
One that I would say is "competently made" would be this one...
AMR LS-77 Reference Class Professional Monitor (Hi-Fi+ 77) | AVguide
My only complaint with the design is that it is SPL limited in absolute terms, because of the size/cost constraints that where imposed onto the design. Which means it suffices for 30m^2 or so living rooms, but for larger rooms line arrays must be set up, as seen here:
Ciao T
My experience has been PRECISELY the reverse.
Of course, my "playground" is rather different from yours.
For example, there is very little in speakerdom that I have heard that manages to match a 15" Tannoy Coaxial in a suitable enclosure or a Urei 811 or a JBL 4430, no matter how many ways it had.
Of course, if you mean with "2-Way" these jokes that use a 5" cone tweeter forced to do midbass duties you may well be right. But they are "faulty by design", so I prefer to studiously ignore them.
I have found that sometimes I need to go 3-Way because I wish to employ certain specific drivers that are unsuited to 2-Ways, they invariably end up much more expensive than a really good 2-Way system would be and it is arguable if they are any better because of being 3-Way.
But if getting a fieldcoil driver for example means that I have to go 3-Way (more precisely FASTAST [Fullrange And Super Tweeter And Subwoofer Technology], that is an unfiltered 8" full range driver with subwoofer and supertweeter) so be it.
I'd rather have a 15" & 2" Fieldcoil driver though.
Clearly, you have never come across a competently made 2-Way then.
One that I would say is "competently made" would be this one...
AMR LS-77 Reference Class Professional Monitor (Hi-Fi+ 77) | AVguide
My only complaint with the design is that it is SPL limited in absolute terms, because of the size/cost constraints that where imposed onto the design. Which means it suffices for 30m^2 or so living rooms, but for larger rooms line arrays must be set up, as seen here:
Ciao T
Hi,
It is a sound reinforcement Speaker, 45Hz LF cutoff, 102dB/2.83V/1m and around 65 X 75 X 40 cm size. It actually was Zeck's attempt to move on from a good position in portable PA Systems for small bands and mobile Disco's into serious Sound reinforcement. Normally the insides where painted black, so you would not see the structure.
They where really good and affordable (though a pair was no patch on a single Community RS-880) and I was sad at their demise. Meanwhile Zeck still makes and sells well the classic 15/3 (15" Woofer, 6" Cone Mid and small compression tweeter - cheaper than most 15/2 systems) they have been making since the late 70's into the small portable PA market.
Ciao T
That Zeck is truly an ugly speaker! I think that would even bother me, unless it were in a rehearsal space.
It is a sound reinforcement Speaker, 45Hz LF cutoff, 102dB/2.83V/1m and around 65 X 75 X 40 cm size. It actually was Zeck's attempt to move on from a good position in portable PA Systems for small bands and mobile Disco's into serious Sound reinforcement. Normally the insides where painted black, so you would not see the structure.
They where really good and affordable (though a pair was no patch on a single Community RS-880) and I was sad at their demise. Meanwhile Zeck still makes and sells well the classic 15/3 (15" Woofer, 6" Cone Mid and small compression tweeter - cheaper than most 15/2 systems) they have been making since the late 70's into the small portable PA market.
Ciao T
Hi,
Now what would they be?
Have you actually ever heard a decent 2-Way with a 15" Woofer and suitable Mid/Treble (e.g. JBL 4430, JBL Everest [I know, this is technically 3-Way, but could be EQ'ed for 2-Way], Tannoy Monitor Red 15, Urei 811 et al)?
Ciao T
Now what would they be?
Have you actually ever heard a decent 2-Way with a 15" Woofer and suitable Mid/Treble (e.g. JBL 4430, JBL Everest [I know, this is technically 3-Way, but could be EQ'ed for 2-Way], Tannoy Monitor Red 15, Urei 811 et al)?
Ciao T
Yes , I have and there are many Inherent issues running a 15 inch woofer that high , many have done so , past and present , I'm not a fan , doesn't work for me, obvious box coloration issues and lack of transient response...
Notice you are using dynaudio drive units in those AMR monitors , so it appears they are sealed enclosures , tweeters by Raal ?
Notice you are using dynaudio drive units in those AMR monitors , so it appears they are sealed enclosures , tweeters by Raal ?
Hi,
I am unsure what you refer to. For example a Tannoy Monitor Red 15 has very good squarewave response (for a speaker, that is - much better than almost anything out there short of Quads) and I am equally not sure what you are referring to with "obvious box colorations", if such exist they surely are the fault of the box, not of the driver diameter.
The bass loading is a bit unusual, not really reflex, not really transmission line, something in'-between, but the enclosures are vented. The tweeters are not Raal, I tend to prefer Magnetostats over true ribbons for issues of practicality with comparable performance. You can read the review...
Ciao T
I am unsure what you refer to. For example a Tannoy Monitor Red 15 has very good squarewave response (for a speaker, that is - much better than almost anything out there short of Quads) and I am equally not sure what you are referring to with "obvious box colorations", if such exist they surely are the fault of the box, not of the driver diameter.
The bass loading is a bit unusual, not really reflex, not really transmission line, something in'-between, but the enclosures are vented. The tweeters are not Raal, I tend to prefer Magnetostats over true ribbons for issues of practicality with comparable performance. You can read the review...
Ciao T
Thorsten, that very much depends on what you mean by "decent 2 way".
It's true that we move in different circles, which is bound to impact on our views and tastes. Of the professional gear, I moved mostly around recording studios, radio and TV stations, but not at all around live bands, mass events, etc. My personal SPL limit is too low for such ear and sometimes bone breaking events.
A speaker with a 15" bass driver I would have nowhere to physically put in, given that my room is only about 14 m2 (app. 153 ft2).
Of the 2 way speakers I have heard to date, those would be AR, JBL, KEF, B&W, etc, meaning mostly commercial makes, including more expensive models from people like ATC, Living Voice, PMC, etc. Some of them were DAMN expensive, too.
And I have still not heard one which I would take in preference to say AR11, let alone my current speakers, whose greatest virtue is that you do not get three drivers working in conjunction, but one single sound source - it is truly seamless. Which was one of the design goals.
And I'm quite happy with my bass extension of around 33 Hz, as a matter of fact, I think it's a damn good result for a small room like mine. No boom, no fizz. It could have been lower still, but the reflex port is tuned to 38 Hz by my choice because at that point, there is practically no response lift before the fall, it's as even as it was possible to obtain.
Unfortunately (relatively speaking), at the time I didn't know Aleksandar, who makes RAAL ribbons, so I use Son Audax's titanium tweeter, which is, incidentally, far better than it was pitched to be. If I was making it today, I'd take his ribbons. He owes me a couple of favors anyway.
So, if we take into account the actual living and operating conditions, perhaps it's to be expected that we should have such differing views.
It's true that we move in different circles, which is bound to impact on our views and tastes. Of the professional gear, I moved mostly around recording studios, radio and TV stations, but not at all around live bands, mass events, etc. My personal SPL limit is too low for such ear and sometimes bone breaking events.
A speaker with a 15" bass driver I would have nowhere to physically put in, given that my room is only about 14 m2 (app. 153 ft2).
Of the 2 way speakers I have heard to date, those would be AR, JBL, KEF, B&W, etc, meaning mostly commercial makes, including more expensive models from people like ATC, Living Voice, PMC, etc. Some of them were DAMN expensive, too.
And I have still not heard one which I would take in preference to say AR11, let alone my current speakers, whose greatest virtue is that you do not get three drivers working in conjunction, but one single sound source - it is truly seamless. Which was one of the design goals.
And I'm quite happy with my bass extension of around 33 Hz, as a matter of fact, I think it's a damn good result for a small room like mine. No boom, no fizz. It could have been lower still, but the reflex port is tuned to 38 Hz by my choice because at that point, there is practically no response lift before the fall, it's as even as it was possible to obtain.
Unfortunately (relatively speaking), at the time I didn't know Aleksandar, who makes RAAL ribbons, so I use Son Audax's titanium tweeter, which is, incidentally, far better than it was pitched to be. If I was making it today, I'd take his ribbons. He owes me a couple of favors anyway.
So, if we take into account the actual living and operating conditions, perhaps it's to be expected that we should have such differing views.
They must be flying off the shelves ......
Its Audio , as much art as science, the science can be applied to justify one 's position and it's done all over the industry daily, hence there are very few concensus on anything ....
Why do we have to have a consensus? Why can't we simply agree not to agree? Just wondering ...
But I agree with you, there is a scientific explanation for just about anybody's view. So I trust my own ears only, no matter who says what.
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I don't know about influences, BEAG used to make quite unique studio equipmet, and they were outside of "western patent zone", but that 2-way monitors sounded very real. May be because I heard nothing better then.
They housed 2 amps inside, both with EL34 outputs, and crossover was before power amps, utilizing if I remember right, something more than 2'nd order. The guy that tried to copy that amps found that output transformers used several different wire diameters, for better balance.
Hi,
I gave examples...
I had 15" based speakers in a similar size bedroom in my east german Flat (a "standard Krushchovka"),
Actually, I had a pair of EV 15"+ 8HD + T35 Speakers in there (with Kölleda EL34 50W Tube Amp) , a pair of TH315 (12"East German coaxial) based Speakers with matching studio Amp (transistor) and one of my custom 100 liter Speakers with two KSP215 driven by a 25W Studio Transistor Amp. Plus a pair of K13 "Kugelboxes" (13cm Full Range driver in balls) driven by a commercial east german 25W Amp to represent "real world" gear.
I actually used a different little corner as "Bedroom" (very cozy, it barely had space for the bedding and a UV tube and a red lightbulb plus some erotic prints - girls thjough it was crazy) and had my "mastering" studio in my notional bedroom... :-D And I had 1-Way, 2-Way and 3-Way speakers there.
I must say that I mostly liked the 1-Way best, but not always.
I suspect these early "pro"days mostly ruined me for conventional HiFi. It just bores me to death.
Price is not a reliable indicator of quality. I would notown the 2-Way models from ATC and PMC (actually, I would not own their 3-Way models either at that), living voice are okay for civilised music and a commercial compromise, unless you head the massive 15" based JBL 2-Way's I shall say it Bachman Turner Overdrive style - "You ain't hrad nothing yet". The rest - less said better.
Well, as said, my 2-Way goes lower. The price paid was 3dB less efficiency than the speaker you use (which incidentally tells me that your drivers are not optimised for approaching the "Iron Law" Limit, the ones I selected are). And no-no boom. The lack of efficiency we make up for with low distortion and compression at high input powers, hence a 10"woofer with a 4" voicoil and a motor that would not look out of place on a 21" Pro Subwoofer..
I had occasion at HiFi Shows to put up a double stack (as shown above) against a lot of stuff, all the way to the big Avant Garde's with six bass horns and trios. I have never been
Perhaps. What I will say is simple.
Narrow baffles make mikey mouse imaging. Small drivers kill subjective dynamics. The 15" Midrange E130 I mentioned is one of the most dynamic midrange I know. It makes anything else sound dynamically challanged...
For example, make a "standmount" sealed box for E130 and tweeter and you probably struggle getting 150Hz flat (at 105dB/1W/1m) but your box will be a touch over 15" wide, as much higher to fit the HF driver, which is not really that large.
Then use any decent (even smaller diameter driver) sub to handle the stuff down below. And even a zero feedback 300B SE Amp will give you dynamics "zum abwinken" (to the wave-off).
Ciao T
I gave examples...
I had 15" based speakers in a similar size bedroom in my east german Flat (a "standard Krushchovka"),
Actually, I had a pair of EV 15"+ 8HD + T35 Speakers in there (with Kölleda EL34 50W Tube Amp) , a pair of TH315 (12"East German coaxial) based Speakers with matching studio Amp (transistor) and one of my custom 100 liter Speakers with two KSP215 driven by a 25W Studio Transistor Amp. Plus a pair of K13 "Kugelboxes" (13cm Full Range driver in balls) driven by a commercial east german 25W Amp to represent "real world" gear.
I actually used a different little corner as "Bedroom" (very cozy, it barely had space for the bedding and a UV tube and a red lightbulb plus some erotic prints - girls thjough it was crazy) and had my "mastering" studio in my notional bedroom... :-D And I had 1-Way, 2-Way and 3-Way speakers there.
I must say that I mostly liked the 1-Way best, but not always.
I suspect these early "pro"days mostly ruined me for conventional HiFi. It just bores me to death.
Price is not a reliable indicator of quality. I would notown the 2-Way models from ATC and PMC (actually, I would not own their 3-Way models either at that), living voice are okay for civilised music and a commercial compromise, unless you head the massive 15" based JBL 2-Way's I shall say it Bachman Turner Overdrive style - "You ain't hrad nothing yet". The rest - less said better.
Well, as said, my 2-Way goes lower. The price paid was 3dB less efficiency than the speaker you use (which incidentally tells me that your drivers are not optimised for approaching the "Iron Law" Limit, the ones I selected are). And no-no boom. The lack of efficiency we make up for with low distortion and compression at high input powers, hence a 10"woofer with a 4" voicoil and a motor that would not look out of place on a 21" Pro Subwoofer..
I had occasion at HiFi Shows to put up a double stack (as shown above) against a lot of stuff, all the way to the big Avant Garde's with six bass horns and trios. I have never been
Perhaps. What I will say is simple.
Narrow baffles make mikey mouse imaging. Small drivers kill subjective dynamics. The 15" Midrange E130 I mentioned is one of the most dynamic midrange I know. It makes anything else sound dynamically challanged...
For example, make a "standmount" sealed box for E130 and tweeter and you probably struggle getting 150Hz flat (at 105dB/1W/1m) but your box will be a touch over 15" wide, as much higher to fit the HF driver, which is not really that large.
Then use any decent (even smaller diameter driver) sub to handle the stuff down below. And even a zero feedback 300B SE Amp will give you dynamics "zum abwinken" (to the wave-off).
Ciao T
Hi,
We sold out a fairly large run (for "expensive high end Speakers").
Due to some issues with the metal factory and the economic collapse (which altered AMR's direction considerably) we have not started a new round, despite considerable demand. Time will tell if we make another few 100 pairs, if we can solve the supply issues without pushing prices to "silly".
Ciao T
They must be flying off the shelves ......
We sold out a fairly large run (for "expensive high end Speakers").
Due to some issues with the metal factory and the economic collapse (which altered AMR's direction considerably) we have not started a new round, despite considerable demand. Time will tell if we make another few 100 pairs, if we can solve the supply issues without pushing prices to "silly".
Ciao T
Hi,
As it so happens, I used to own Tannoy Corner Yorks, correctly build and damped.
Before we get into technical details, I would note that these Tannoys where heard by many "cognescenti" (including reviewers, manufacturers, famous audiophiles, mastering engineers, you name them). I never once heard anyone criticise my system for sounding "boxy" or anything like it.
Another comment this setup usually drew was on the ridiculous wide and deep sound stage it created. I would add that this system was comparably low in distortion across the board and 97dB/2.83V/1m with 16 Ohm Impedance and 30Hz-16KHz reasonably flat in room, placed in corners.
Now to the technical issues.
In the 80's I had a favourite "Vocal PA" Box, which delivered incredibly well for the cost/complexity. It used a single 15" JBL E130 and three Motorola "Lemon Squeezer" Piezo Tweeters in a distinctly german "hornkehle" (best translated as hornreflex) box with 24" square front and 12"deep.
The E130 carried the whole vocal range up to around 5KHz and did so extremely cleanly and without obvious problems. It had amazing projection in the middle distances and the whole system was 105dB/W/m above around 200Hz. Understand, that was a 15" "Midrange" Driver.
We tended to combine these with E140 or K140 in simple vented boxes as "bass" and managed to fill venues with as many as 500 patrons with nothing more than these and two 200WPC Stereo Amp's...
Of course, this was not "HiFi', but TBH, if you gave me a set of two pair of K140, one pair of E130 and a pair of the JBL Baby Buttcheek Horns (2402 IIRC) and told me I had to live with these for the rest of my life, I'd build the bass into a pair of Shearers integrated into the listening room and put the rest into a small (for 15") Monitor standmount and I would be very happy.
Now on to "wide baffles". It may surprise, but most "serious" studio monitors are designed for soffit mounting (that is in-wall or "infinite baffle"), for good reasons, because acoustic problems are created, not solved by narrow baffles. There is no such thing as too wide a baffle, only too narrow ones.
In fact, I have to yet hear a narrow baffle speaker that does not make a Baritone sound like a counter-tenor...
So it seems we live in worlds where different laws apply, or you simply have developed a taste for the usual hifi stuff (to which you are welcome) which I disdain and distaste, as it sounds extremely coloured and artificial to me.
De gustibus non disputandum est.
One man's meatloaf is anothers poison.
Hence we best agree to disagree.
Ciao T
PS, here is what one listener had to say about my Tannoy Setup:
As it so happens, I used to own Tannoy Corner Yorks, correctly build and damped.
Before we get into technical details, I would note that these Tannoys where heard by many "cognescenti" (including reviewers, manufacturers, famous audiophiles, mastering engineers, you name them). I never once heard anyone criticise my system for sounding "boxy" or anything like it.
Another comment this setup usually drew was on the ridiculous wide and deep sound stage it created. I would add that this system was comparably low in distortion across the board and 97dB/2.83V/1m with 16 Ohm Impedance and 30Hz-16KHz reasonably flat in room, placed in corners.
Now to the technical issues.
In the 80's I had a favourite "Vocal PA" Box, which delivered incredibly well for the cost/complexity. It used a single 15" JBL E130 and three Motorola "Lemon Squeezer" Piezo Tweeters in a distinctly german "hornkehle" (best translated as hornreflex) box with 24" square front and 12"deep.
The E130 carried the whole vocal range up to around 5KHz and did so extremely cleanly and without obvious problems. It had amazing projection in the middle distances and the whole system was 105dB/W/m above around 200Hz. Understand, that was a 15" "Midrange" Driver.
We tended to combine these with E140 or K140 in simple vented boxes as "bass" and managed to fill venues with as many as 500 patrons with nothing more than these and two 200WPC Stereo Amp's...
Of course, this was not "HiFi', but TBH, if you gave me a set of two pair of K140, one pair of E130 and a pair of the JBL Baby Buttcheek Horns (2402 IIRC) and told me I had to live with these for the rest of my life, I'd build the bass into a pair of Shearers integrated into the listening room and put the rest into a small (for 15") Monitor standmount and I would be very happy.
Now on to "wide baffles". It may surprise, but most "serious" studio monitors are designed for soffit mounting (that is in-wall or "infinite baffle"), for good reasons, because acoustic problems are created, not solved by narrow baffles. There is no such thing as too wide a baffle, only too narrow ones.
In fact, I have to yet hear a narrow baffle speaker that does not make a Baritone sound like a counter-tenor...
So it seems we live in worlds where different laws apply, or you simply have developed a taste for the usual hifi stuff (to which you are welcome) which I disdain and distaste, as it sounds extremely coloured and artificial to me.
De gustibus non disputandum est.
One man's meatloaf is anothers poison.
Hence we best agree to disagree.
Ciao T
PS, here is what one listener had to say about my Tannoy Setup:
Adnan Arduman said:
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You are right and so is Thorsten on the Tannoy's. Have a pair of 15 inch K3838's. They are really very good, and for the same reason Dr Geddes I presume thinks that a 15" inch can be all right. It all has to do with the dispersion pattern of the drivers. Frequency response of the individual drivers is not the only relevant parameter when to decide between a 2 and a 3-way; you also want to prevent wild shifts in dispersion patterns between drivers in their crossover region(s). Tannoy and Dr Geddes use the same solution of a directivity guide or horn on the mid/high. The only difference is that the cone of the Tannoy's functions as a horn, and Dr Geddes places the horn above the woofer. Both solutions have pro's and con's, but the principle is the same, and it works if you want to have a 2-way with a large woofer.
Glad to hear , but my comment was for another .....
Hi,
As it so happens, I used to own Tannoy Corn
Before we get into technical details, I would note that these Tannoys where heard by many "cognescenti" (including reviewers, manufacturers, famous audiophiles, mastering engineers, you name them). I never once heard anyone criticise my system for sounding "boxy" or anything like it.
Another comment this setup usually drew was on the ridiculous wide and deep sound stage it created. I would add that this system was comparably low in distortion across the board and 97dB/2.83V/1m with 16 Ohm Impedance and 30Hz-16KHz reasonably flat in room, placed in corners.
Now to the technical issues.
In the 80's I had a favourite "Vocal PA" Box, which delivered incredibly well for the cost/complexity. It used a single 15" JBL E130 and three Motorola "Lemon Squeezer" Piezo Tweeters in a distinctly german "hornkehle" (best translated as hornreflex) box with 24" square front and 12"deep.
The E130 carried the whole vocal range up to around 5KHz and did so extremely cleanly and without obvious problems. It had amazing projection in the middle distances and the whole system was 105dB/W/m above around 200Hz. Understand, that was a 15" "Midrange" Driver.
We tended to combine these with E140 or K140 in simple vented boxes as "bass" and managed to fill venues with as many as 500 patrons with nothing more than these and two 200WPC Stereo Amp's...
Of course, this was not "HiFi', but TBH, if you gave me a set of two pair of K140, one pair of E130 and a pair of the JBL Baby Buttcheek Horns (2402 IIRC) and told me I had to live with these for the rest of my life, I'd build the bass into a pair of Shearers integrated into the listening room and put the rest into a small (for 15") Monitor standmount and I would be very happy.
Now on to "wide baffles". It may surprise, but most "serious" studio monitors are designed for soffit mounting (that is in-wall or "infinite baffle"), for good reasons, because acoustic problems are created, not solved by narrow baffles. There is no such thing as too wide a baffle, only too narrow ones.
In fact, I have to yet hear a narrow baffle speaker that does not make a Baritone sound like a counter-tenor...
So it seems we live in worlds where different laws apply, or you simply have developed a taste for the usual hifi stuff (to which you are welcome) which I disdain and distaste, as it sounds extremely coloured and artificial to me.
P
De gustibus non disputandum est.
One man's meatloaf is anothers poison.
Hence we best agree to disagree.
Ciao T
PS, here is what one listener had to say about my Tannoy Setup:
http://www.arduman.com/aa/sayfalar/thorsten/thorsten.htm
I will just say , there is too narrow and there is too wide , those tannoy's are too wide IMO and will not leave the room as just right ...
There are those who like that sound board effect, nothing wrong , just not for me and don't get me going on soffet mounted studio monitors ...
We have different criteria, I'm sensitive to all that harmonic noise emitting from any 15 inch woofer operated above 250hz , worst with forward firing ports , there is nothing correct about it , throw in high order x-overs and it's , thanks for the wine and cheese , bye ....
Now if I'm doing an outdoor garden party and needed to cover a large area and needed 90 plus db then I'm with you ....
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Well Thorsten, you may have had 15" drivered boxes in your room at that time, but did you also have to sleep and work in that same room? Because my room is my bedroom, my work room and my day-to-day living space.
Which means that it has to have a lot of contents, even for occasional use. Space is very much at a premium.
It's come to the point when my left speaker stands on top of another pair of speakers instead of a stand.
As for compression, if I have any (and reason tells me I must have some at least), it's well below any level I would find offensive. A good bass, such as the one on Blue Man group first CD, piece No.8, literally shakes up the room. True, there are 2*180W moving the membranes, but all the same.
I stand by my view, my only limitation being that I hold it true for regular speakers for regular people, not cheap but not silly expensive (although even this is up for dispute, what's expensive for whom), for normal, everyday use. Three way wins.
So, since neither one of us is going to budge over this, we'd best call it a day. We agree not to agree.
Which means that it has to have a lot of contents, even for occasional use. Space is very much at a premium.
It's come to the point when my left speaker stands on top of another pair of speakers instead of a stand.
As for compression, if I have any (and reason tells me I must have some at least), it's well below any level I would find offensive. A good bass, such as the one on Blue Man group first CD, piece No.8, literally shakes up the room. True, there are 2*180W moving the membranes, but all the same.
I stand by my view, my only limitation being that I hold it true for regular speakers for regular people, not cheap but not silly expensive (although even this is up for dispute, what's expensive for whom), for normal, everyday use. Three way wins.
So, since neither one of us is going to budge over this, we'd best call it a day. We agree not to agree.
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