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Old 7th July 2013, 07:16 AM   #9821
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Nyquist and Fourier .

Isn't it remarkable both were mostly right . As far as I know Nyquist was saying for telephone use . A big deal as it required a doubling in bandwidth when that was usually a very limited thing . The pay off improved reproduction . The last reasonably perfect square-wave comes at about 280 Hz from a CD player . The 79th term ( 1/79 F 79 ) . At about - 38 dB .

I often used a CD player as a sine wave generator . A Hi Fi News test disc . I had to work hard to design a generator that was better .
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Old 7th July 2013, 07:28 AM   #9822
dvv is offline dvv  Serbia
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Originally Posted by qusp View Post
...

so you get a group of self declared golden ears using psuedo technical made up terminology that they dont even understand themselves, reporting on improving mechanisms that they clearly dont have even the foggiest idea about the workings of. yet unbelievers are treated as closed minded, even with things like this, where there is absolutely ZERO window for improvement.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't this been the bugbear of audio for about as long as audio as we know it has existed?

Self-styled gurus gallore?

People who hear things nobody else hears? On occasion, I suggested that instead of their cables they change their pot supplier, they been smokin' some bad ganja, man.

On the other hand, I have been known to actually invite some sharp ears to auditions of things like my own speakers, but these were professors from the Academy of Music, people with zero vested interests either way. And even they didn't agree among themselves, thought they so much more politely than your average audiophiles. One thought Levinson was the best amp out there if it was driving big B&W speakers and had them in his own class, another believed Klein & Hummel active speakers were the top, etc.

Point is, I recognize and accept without reserve the fact that there are people who can hear a hell of a lot more and better than I can, and anyway, I never thought of myself as anything special hearing-wise. Summa sumarum, I've done pretty well voicing my own projects given this fact, as a strong majority of listeners felt they sounded good (as in better than average). That's good enough for me to justify the time, work and expense involved.
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Old 7th July 2013, 08:43 AM   #9823
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DDD recordings .

I was lead to believe many DDD recording were in fact using something like Dolby A and Revox . The name of the Dolby they used escapes me . Often a direct copy on Sony PCMF1 and a back up Revox . Back at base the Revox and PCMF 1 would be compared . If the Revox was better a number of transfers would be done until an optimum PCMF1 copy was produced . This would be handed over as the DDD master . The point being . The transfer could be done within the very narrow window of ideal PCMF1 performance better than guessing when live . The hiss levels would not be vastly different . The compression ability of the Revox would be useful . As the guy who told me said . Any recording engineer would know as wow and flutter is noticeable on a Revox if one is used to it . ADD was a useful way to do it . The Dolby upgrades were aimed at keeping the older stuff alive .

My friend John said something about ADD that I can not agree with . He states masters meant for cutting LP's were direct transferred to CD . That alone was the big initial problem . I don't beleive that . It makes the people in the recording studios look a bit stupid . If they are able to jig a recording for LP it should be a very small step get it right for CD . They didn't understand ? I bet they understood better than most ?

The BBC Golden Ear panel I think were reliable and sceintific in their approach .
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Old 7th July 2013, 12:34 PM   #9824
hpeter is offline hpeter  Europe
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Originally Posted by fas42 View Post
Well, I've heard plenty of those in my time ... plus, YouTube is full of grabs of high end systems, in homes and at shows, sounding dreadful - the decent ones are hard to find ...
..recorded by "hd" 150€ cameras



but not this one, with 4khd scarlet camera AFAIK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvZgV3gkpNA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxBKC0ny_wA
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Last edited by hpeter; 7th July 2013 at 12:37 PM.
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Old 7th July 2013, 01:15 PM   #9825
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Aaah, yes ... Kenrick Sound - one of the "decent ones", at least for a couple of the clips - the Pioneer is good, hadn't heard that one before, but the small Rey Audio units are fairly lacking -- best of the bunch is the big daddy RM-7V ...

Even here it's a curate's egg - e.g., the JBLs are uniformly pretty awful ...
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Old 7th July 2013, 04:55 PM   #9826
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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Originally Posted by qusp View Post
for instance, in one of my local forums here at the moment, having just crunched through USB cables and their effect, computer power cables and 2K shunt PC power supplies, I now am faced with a group of people talking about the fantastic new audiophile grade $500 SATA cable its been said to improve the sound by some, so it must improve the sound, despite the insurmountable evidence to the contrary

so you get a group of self declared golden ears using psuedo technical made up terminology that they dont even understand themselves, reporting on improving mechanisms that they clearly dont have even the foggiest idea about the workings of. yet unbelievers are treated as closed minded, even with things like this, where there is absolutely ZERO window for improvement.
In a high resolution system everything makes a difference , everything , change the cables , a difference , power cords ? a difference , where golden ears fail in publication is not researching why it makes a difference ...


Not enuff Objectivity ....
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Old 7th July 2013, 05:13 PM   #9827
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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Originally Posted by hpeter View Post
..recorded by "hd" 150€ cameras



but not this one, with 4khd scarlet camera AFAIK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvZgV3gkpNA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxBKC0ny_wA
Camera distortion , makes you almost want to get a horn speaker ...
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Old 7th July 2013, 05:25 PM   #9828
hpeter is offline hpeter  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fas42 View Post
Aaah, yes ... Kenrick Sound - one of the "decent ones", at least for a couple of the clips - the Pioneer is good, hadn't heard that one before, but the small Rey Audio units are fairly lacking -- best of the bunch is the big daddy RM-7V ...

Even here it's a curate's egg - e.g., the JBLs are uniformly pretty awful ...
those reyaudio boxes weight a lot, handle 500W, some more. had not luck to gather info on prices
if i sell 911gt3 them maybe i can afford them (not telling that i have one)
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Old 7th July 2013, 05:45 PM   #9829
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Originally Posted by qusp View Post
yes, sorry I meant to edit to make that clear,the second part was a more general rant its a bee in my bonnet at the moment. you cannot argue with someone that has completely lost all sense of reason, they are impervious to it.
Well, you can argue, but it's not likely to do much good. I have been able to talk some sense into someone wanting to wire his amp inputs with pure silver wire once. It was on a French forum. Those sorts of things are rare, tho. High dollar audio grade USB cables, anyone?

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all perfectly valid, if you dont care how it measures and will accept that it isnt technically superior, but simply prefer the sound, then no problem. I have no issue at all with that.
OK, but I see it as more than that. As SY is fond of saying, getting the signal right thru the playback and amplification stages isn't difficult, but once you get to the speakers, the problem becomes much more complex. I'd say "All Hell breaks loose."

Technically superior can be in the mind's eye of the beholder. There isn't even much agreement on that. But if it sounds like the real thing - consistently - then that's what I want. Out of curiosity I want to know why it sounds right and what were the methods used to get there. But the technical aspect is only the means to the goal - my goal is that it sounds real.

Other people have other goals. "Real" might not be important. Numbers may or may not be important. Technical merit is the goal of some. "Sounds Good" is a simple goal for most people.
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Old 7th July 2013, 06:34 PM   #9830
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"Sounds Good" is a simple goal for most people.
Good isn't proving simple for me .

I can do good as good can be through headphones, but the pathos is overwhelming. No speakers seem to be comfortable in my small stone room .

"Sounds like the real thing" is ambiguous. Maybe you could elucidate on the what the real thing is?

I hope one day music will sound realistic, in being a convincing live performance in my room. For me, that would not just sound like the real thing, it would actually be the real thing.
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