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Old 4th July 2013, 12:46 AM   #9661
fas42 is online now fas42  Australia
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Originally Posted by bcarso View Post
Yes that was one of the silliest theories I ever saw, as if we had known nothing about solid state physics before the saucer crash etc.

I hear they did have some nice cables though
I knew that that anti-gravity thing had to have some simple explanation ...
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Old 4th July 2013, 01:08 AM   #9662
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Originally Posted by nigel pearson View Post
However one piece of music defeated the buildings reluctance . The musicians also defeated their talent as if on some very dangerous drug , not one wrong note or timing . It was the most stunning musical experience of my life . The music built from nothing and seemed to have more pure sound that any hi fi or PA . This extract is pale although almost note for note identical ( texture also ) . It was so warm and brilliant ( sparkle ) . Hot for want of a better word . Love the magician ? I guess so .

Barenboim - "El amor brujo" (Danza ritual del fuego) Falla - YouTube
Very nice call, Nigel. Just had this running on the PC monitors, and demonstrates the malarkey about YouTube not being good enough is just that. Needed miles more SPL from these little speakers, volume hard against the bump stops, the power supplies obviously collapsing under the stress. But, put this through a system capable of comfortably, cleanly doing the dynamic range at realistic volumes and you should be able to easily blow your house down. This, is what it's all about - there are no excuses for the crappy sound one so often encounters ...
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Old 4th July 2013, 02:11 AM   #9663
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Originally Posted by Barleywater View Post
Definitely record speakers playing music from various locations in room a playback/listen on phones, and be amazed by the horror of it all.
Missed commenting on this earlier, and that was to say that this is where the turnaround occurs, where "good sound" emerges. A conventional, causal recording of speakers in many situations will be a "horror", because the playback system is not working properly; but, get the quality far enough up the line and this no longer happens. This is when one can casually walk around one's living quarters, doing bits and pieces - and the part of your brain still registering the sound it hears notes that all is in order - you don't have to concentrate to hear how "good" the sound is ...
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Old 4th July 2013, 03:11 AM   #9664
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I might take the opportunity to point out my feeble attempts to do this, which are still up: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/blogs...ne-before.html. Do take note that the machinery and technique used is very primitive, especially in the area of recorder overload ...
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Old 4th July 2013, 03:49 AM   #9665
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Originally Posted by rdf View Post
however 'the real thing' is central to the accuracy of a reproduction system.
But "the real thing" is not about de "instruments' sound"... it is about "the recorded sound" and that is the only thing that we can (must??) reproduce accurately.
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Old 4th July 2013, 06:40 AM   #9666
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Exactly, Ezavalla, that's hitting the nail on the head.

Hard core audiophiles have a problem accepting that the software we use as a source is already tainted in absolute terms, if for no other reason than at least because we are hearing not what was, but what the sound engineer made it sound like. Not to even mention what it had to pass through before it got to us.

The search for perfection, as is any absolute, is doomed from the start. In the end, we settle on what sound good to us, on our systems, in our rooms. Not to even mention the odd setups people use, like marrying a notoriously difficult speaker to a 50 or 60 WPC tube amp. By "difficult", I refer to pretty inefficient speakers which really do need serious power, with an evil impedance modulus, demanding yet more current. Then you bring over a decent transistor amp, and they are amazed.
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Old 4th July 2013, 06:59 AM   #9667
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Remarkably, even on "poor" recordings, enough of the signature qualities of the instruments used are captured, in spite of the best efforts of the sound engineers to mangle them! I have been surprised many times over the years to find recordings which I deemed at some stage to be unrecoverable, will come to life, will allow one to comfortably access the musical qualities ... if the system is of sufficient quality ...

Hence my motto -- "There is no such thing as a bad recording" ...
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Old 4th July 2013, 08:27 AM   #9668
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I have some music where I can now clearly hear the layered audio effects on the lead vocal and that some of these are quantised, sounding horrible
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Old 4th July 2013, 10:07 AM   #9669
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Originally Posted by fas42 View Post
Remarkably, even on "poor" recordings, enough of the signature qualities of the instruments used are captured, in spite of the best efforts of the sound engineers to mangle them! I have been surprised many times over the years to find recordings which I deemed at some stage to be unrecoverable, will come to life, will allow one to comfortably access the musical qualities ... if the system is of sufficient quality ...

Hence my motto -- "There is no such thing as a bad recording" ...
Sorry Frank, but I disagree.

There are some really awful recordings which simply cannot be returned to any "normal" state without hevy processing.

While I agree that the system should be one of high resolution, that should not be used as an excuse for poor recordings, quite simply because not too many people have high resolution systems at home. A truly good recording will shine (in comparison with others) even in a El Cheapo system, even if at a lower quality point in comparison with a really good system.
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Old 4th July 2013, 10:11 AM   #9670
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Let me tell you about real sound . It is the same problems as Bible bashing . I always say I wasn't there . To be clear I am neither atheist not agnostic , where I am after that is not clear to me . I never met Caruso either . I hold opinions on all of that like any other man . If you don't , you should . Albeit I like the jacket Caruso typically wore . Fair do's .

With live recording I can do better . Using the purest technique I can get an interplay which is the best memory of the event . It will use two mics . Elastoplast and string . A child's school protractor . It will have two guide strings for positioning . The front two to do tilt and swivel . That is mostly as it is not very accurate when using string . The sound is then down to microphones used . In the distant past it was a Sony TC 377 tape recorder . To be very simple about it the microphones to put the TC377 to shame would have been out of my budget . Hiss was regulated by gentle gain riding . You would think the other end the big problem . Yes and no . Simple timing notes say expect a tidal wave in 5 minutes 37 seconds from rehearsal notes taken .

The sound I got was unlike commercial recordings . The dynamic range seemed real . The gain riding helps the ears beleive that . It is pure . Where it fails is it is like a film star without make up . The almost horrible echos are heard , far from horrible to me . It is the interplay that is so hard to capture . Making sure it is not eliminated early in the process by close miking .

It can not be real as we do not listen 12 feet off the floor where my microphones would be placed typically . So that is the battle lost . Also if we record where I would usually sit the sound is dreadful .

How to go commercial . I suspect the 78's set the trend . Even if people know real sound they like commercial sound . In the 1910 period there was no choice . I feel we never changed the rules . Jazz and pop to me have slightly different rules . Jazz is the most obliging of all and reality is close to being possible . Jazz and hi fi are almost products of each other ( think also guitar amps ) .

String is better than microphone stands . A fire officer banned my string because it wasn't in a risk assessment . I did it for nothing so was a bit narked . Microphone stands can make a piano sound like it is underwater . Pay loads of money to prove string is better ?

Commercial is to blend in other Microphones . This is like the apple pie you buy in a supermarket . Tastes OK and has 50 things homemade never has .

Layers . If the blending goes wrong the layers burr . Admittedly they should . Thing is , better a expose layers than have time distortion ( echos lost ) .

When sound is very good you can sense the microphone diaphragm . Not a welcome thing but logically you should hear it . Needless to say the system has to be good to do this . Cheap good headphones hint at it .

We were told the 1959 Decca recording Perter Grimes was the one to study if wanting good commercial sound that seems real . Decca went to great trouble to use good sounding buildings .

This piece of music below is about as complex as one can get without reality being a problem . Get it right and it has warmth this vibrancy . Get it wrong and it is pure acid . The second extract shows how it changes due to the needs . Same people , same time , same everything except notes . At one point harmonics of the bridge are used . It is well beyond magic when hearing the harmonics . Like a wooden flute except using the bow . The composers notes say all one needs to know . That's all the engineer is required to do capture the intentions . Ravel wrote wonderful instructions and the music is cheap unlike a complete Beethoven interpretation . Thus genuine Ravel is easy and Beethoven hardly exists in that form . Ravel was natty dresser I think I read , sort makes sense he would be . Ravel orchestral pieces can be played by good orchestras very well . It is that the complete scores are available at moderate prices that helps . Beethoven is often done by listening to CD's on equipment we wouldn't call hi fi . Musicians seldom have good hi fi's .


Aiana String Quartet - "Ravel String Quartet in F major": SXSW 2012 Showcasing Artist - YouTube
Ravel String Quartet in F - 1st movement - YouTube

Last edited by nigel pearson; 4th July 2013 at 10:17 AM.
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