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Old 27th June 2013, 07:04 AM   #9561
dvv is offline dvv  Serbia
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The thing is, you see, that I suspect Bose was not, shall we say, truly original with the concept, and his speakers look awfully alike to a Swedish manufacturer of the time, Sonab. A bit too much for comfort.

Sonab had used excactly the same approach for at least 7 or 8 years before Bose series 3, 5 and 9 even appeared. And, I might add, with very similar results. Take a peek here: Sonab Katalog 1972

I believe Sonab was responsible for some of the most innovative thinking on audio in Europe in 1970. A little off-beat, but good, really good. A Canadian colleague of my dad did own OA6, the largest model in the line and loved them so much he enjoyed giving demos, almost like a salesman. A few hours with them said all there was to say, an excellent concept well executed.

Bose came years later. While I like the concept and support it as such, I have always found Bose speakers to be lacking in the top end. To my ears, irritatingly so.
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Old 27th June 2013, 11:10 AM   #9562
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Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
I heard a full Bose setup in 78, power amp and 901 with eq, i thought it was fantastic how it filled the room with sound. People who listen to live PA bands will favor the sound ..
Agreed . By some twist of fate I can show you how they sound . This is people dancing to them .

Clubbers upstairs at Kirklands Wine Bar, 1981, Liverpool museums
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Old 27th June 2013, 12:37 PM   #9563
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A Russian guy on another thread is suggesting amplifiers have a 3 dimensional system of working . Thus the current and voltage verses time is not the only question . He used a paper on twin oscillators and Chaos maths to suggest an idea . I sort of thought I understood . An amplifier like a bad clock perhaps ? It might even have Chaos qualities like the strange attractor where order arrives from Chaos . Is a feedback amplifier ordering a turbulent system ? As far as I know that requires we go beyond turbulence which as far as I know we don't . All very fascinating .
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Old 27th June 2013, 01:40 PM   #9564
DF96 is offline DF96  England
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I doubt if a typical audio amplifier has enough nonlinearity to behave chaotically. At the amplifier input the only issue is voltage vs.time. Same at the output. Of course, the voltage may be affected by current draw and there may be reactive components but my hunch is that people raise esoteric complications because they don't sufficiently understand the basic engineering problems and solutions of amplifiers. Get the basics right and the esoterica disappear.
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Old 27th June 2013, 02:00 PM   #9565
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Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
Lol ......
double that lol. I actually smiled when I read the reply you qouted and thought it's worth a comment.
and that's because Marantz is more than rumored to be a marketing-driven company nowadays. someone I rather trust told me that Ken Ishiwata has no idea what goes on inside their products and is no more than a marketing gimmick. but I guess that for a geek/snob niche of the market a weird-looking Japanese guy that dresses like a homo and has the most irritating accent has some appeal.
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Old 27th June 2013, 04:43 PM   #9566
dvv is offline dvv  Serbia
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You need to differentiate between Marantz as company, and Saul B. Marantz as a person. Saul sold the company in the mid 60ies, and had no say in its running since the mid 70ies (even if he did own stock in it).

Personally, the last and only Marantz products I cheris were made in the last ever "Desogned in the U.S.A., manufactured in Jašpan" series 1978-1980. After that, its fall began, and it is now a typical, me-too Japanese manufacturer of no particular significance.

Be that as it may, I still like to think of Saul B. Marantz as one of the pioneers of the audio industry.
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Old 27th June 2013, 04:44 PM   #9567
dvv is offline dvv  Serbia
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You need to differentiate between Marantz as company, and Saul B. Marantz as a person. Saul sold the company in the mid 60ies, and had no say in its running since the mid 70ies (even if he did own stock in it).

Personally, the last and only Marantz products I cheris were made in the last ever "Desogned in the U.S.A., manufactured in Jašpan" series 1978-1980. After that, its fall began, and it is now a typical, me-too Japanese manufacturer of no particular significance.

Be that as it may, I still like to think of Saul B. Marantz as one of the pioneers of the audio industry.
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Old 27th June 2013, 06:42 PM   #9568
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DF96 View Post
I doubt if a typical audio amplifier has enough nonlinearity to behave chaotically. At the amplifier input the only issue is voltage vs.time. Same at the output. Of course, the voltage may be affected by current draw and there may be reactive components but my hunch is that people raise esoteric complications because they don't sufficiently understand the basic engineering problems and solutions of amplifiers. Get the basics right and the esoterica disappear.
That's about what I thought . I will think about it a bit more . The guy who said it I suspect does do esoteric research in a similar field . I have friends like this and English or Russian they usually speak in a different tongue . When my brother went to college his tutor wrote he thought my brother didn't know what he was talking about . Soon they realized it was they who didn't understand . When asked where he read an idea he said he hadn't . He had worked it out . They even said they teach his proofs as they are far simpler to understand .

My brother showed me a very quick way to calculate RIAA . It was only 0.2 dB out . I lost my notes and have forgotten . It was so easy .

If anyone knows legitimate hacking I would love to use his e-mail address as my own . I write to him about twice a year . It is the same as taking him flowers as I did on Tuesday . I just need his pass word . I have friends who can I am sure .
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Old 27th June 2013, 06:50 PM   #9569
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Originally Posted by dvv View Post
You need to differentiate between Marantz as company, and Saul B. Marantz as a person. Saul sold the company in the mid 60ies, and had no say in its running since the mid 70ies (even if he did own stock in it).

Personally, the last and only Marantz products I cheris were made in the last ever "Desogned in the U.S.A., manufactured in Jašpan" series 1978-1980. After that, its fall began, and it is now a typical, me-too Japanese manufacturer of no particular significance.

Be that as it may, I still like to think of Saul B. Marantz as one of the pioneers of the audio industry.
It was Model 10 that pulled them under . Sid Smith said they lost $250 on each one . We were selling Garrard 501 too cheaply . Sid and my Boss Terry became friends due to the loosing of money ( Sid heard and wanted to meet Terry ) . Terry at one point had lost $600 000 on 501 . The losses were just not making any yet living the life of a minor film star when we went to shows . I loved every minute and made friends I could never have imagined . We got the money back , not through 501 . Terry is 68 now . He should retire . He just about has a good life/work balance . He said the other day how on Earth can anyone live on a pension of $43200 a year ( after tax ) . I would give it a try . Sid probably saved Terry . He said grit your teeth and charge more .

When the Model 8 or 9 was relaunched the now Marantz never contacted Sid . Terry and I made a point of telling the man with the pony tail that . He has never spoken to us since . Irony is Sid would have helped him for nothing .

Sid said out of him and I think Dick Siquara combined ( spelling ? or John D ) you got one decent engineer . I would say so . Williamson was the company inspiration . Sid said winding the transformers himself was the only way to get what he wanted . I think he said they made in house from his designs ? We were to work together . Alas never to be . It was obvious he was someone very elevated as a thinker .

BTW Dvv. If I understand correctly Marantz was then bought by Philips to have access to Japan for component trading . Credit to the man with the pony tail he begged them to respect the company history and drag them out of the pit they had fallen into . I think although now so unlikely Philips hadn't given it any thought . Superscope was the name of the unworthy stuff which had been the down market Marantz . The tape decks were not too bad .

Last edited by nigel pearson; 27th June 2013 at 07:20 PM.
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Old 27th June 2013, 08:17 PM   #9570
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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So who is going to save McIntosh .. ?
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