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Old 13th January 2012, 04:09 PM   #941
gk7 is offline gk7
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Thank you.
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Old 13th January 2012, 08:34 PM   #942
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Hallo Torsten!

Based on personal knowledge, experience and measurements
I can tell you the two golden rules of Sound Quality Vs. Measurements:

Rule1) A musical sounding amplifier just produces odd order harmonics when it starts to clip.

Rule2) A transparent sounding amplifier has low overshoot and settling time (tip: can be reached with fet-input).

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Old 13th January 2012, 08:35 PM   #943
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Old 14th January 2012, 01:05 AM   #944
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Quote:
Originally Posted by godfrey View Post
All amplifiers sound the same!

There, now it's been said. Bookmark this post, folks, so you can quote it later as needed.
I have absolutely no question that amp-driver combinations sound different changing only the amp part of the system. None. Zero. I can clearly hear it, my wife extremely so. If you are so lucky not to hear a difference, you have an advantage over the rest of us as you have more beer money. Bookmark THAT.

Anyway, books came. Reading Self first. I am starting at the beginning, that is by understanding the numerous variations of the LTP. Sure is a lot of variations and that is not even looking at the connections for feedback. Searched the web and came across several discussions here. (Jan, you may remember some). Also went through all my old hobby DIY type magazines to read Nelson's, Jan's, and Erno's contributions among others. It is interesting to see how thinking has changed from the early 80's to now. Step two is to reverse engineer the samples I have and breadboard a few that look interesting with modern parts. Any advice in the modern part arena is gladly welcomed. I seem to remember some comments about basic differences in NPN vs PNP that could explain why one was selected over the other. Any feedback on that topic is also most welcome. ( I should use FETs anyway, right?)

Thinking more on measurement and perception. The issue could just as easily be a "good" amp actually degrading something that masks a driver problem as it could be a "bad" amp being basically correct allows a driver problem to persist. This leads to a logical question: If my speakers were good enough, would we still hear a difference in the amps? To throw a wrench in all that, cheap commodity amps universally sound pretty poor with my commodity speakers. Some mid range amps sound fine, some do not, Most really good amps sound fine, a very few do not. ( within the sample I have had the privilege to listen to in my home. Probably about 30 or so amps.) With this observation, the best of the best would universally sound "bad". Can't say that is so.

Digging out obsolete datasheets may be the biggest problem in reverse engineering my various schematics.
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Old 14th January 2012, 02:05 AM   #945
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Of course it depends on how bad or good things are, but in general I'd say good speakers matter more than the amp.


edit: not saying that a good amp can't help a good speakers performance. (if they like each other)

Last edited by revboden; 14th January 2012 at 02:15 AM.
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Old 14th January 2012, 02:21 AM   #946
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Absolutely, no question. Speakers are the biggest problem. The very best are pretty poor. But, the jest of this thread is how different amps sound on the same speakers. Speakers should cost several times what your amp does or you have not spent your money for the best bang for the buck. My two cents of course.

If you wonder, I am using first generation Paradigm Studio 20's with a modified Bheringer crossover to my own peerless based sealed subs. The 20's were great for the price and actually pretty good. My subs are very good. I also have several pairs I made, some old Kef Q1's and even an original pair of Faccets. Back to the books.
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Old 14th January 2012, 02:30 AM   #947
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Hmmm...
If my speaker has a zobel or sufficient compensation to present a resonantly well behaved load, does the amp still need the output zobel? This is one of the places I have considered that could be causing my "delay" symptom. Also, inside or outside the feedback loop is something else to think about. Always wanted to try 4 wire sense at the driver but that is a lot of additional parastatics to profile. Guess internal self powered has the advantage there.
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Old 14th January 2012, 02:30 AM   #948
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Quote:
Originally Posted by revboden View Post
Of course it depends on how bad or good things are, but in general I'd say good speakers matter more than the amp.


edit: not saying that a good amp can't help a good speakers performance. (if they like each other)
I disagree. Good singers, musicians, composers matter more.
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Old 14th January 2012, 02:34 AM   #949
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I stand corrected. I guess I have to admit the recording engineer is the next most important link. Unfortunately, I can't do anything about either.
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Old 14th January 2012, 02:53 AM   #950
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If you think the 20s are good, try the Signature 1, v3. And yes you can do something about recording quality by supporting good engineers as listed in the credits. Regards
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