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Old 14th March 2013, 11:09 PM   #8641
fas42 is online now fas42  Australia
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The power chips are good enough as is, certainly have no trouble delivering truly "invisible" speakers, and the dynamics of the Beethoven 9th.

Where the refinements need to be made is in the support mechanisms, notably the power supplies. I have seriously contemplated doing a 2400W amp just using chip amps, and blowing the windows out of a listening room or two, just as an "up yours" ...

Frank
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Old 15th March 2013, 12:33 AM   #8642
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I suspect in ten years' time, "power chips" will mean Class D, and current power chips will go the way of the wallwart containing a 50/60Hz transformer.
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Old 15th March 2013, 07:18 AM   #8643
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Originally Posted by fas42 View Post
The power chips are good enough as is, certainly have no trouble delivering truly "invisible" speakers, and the dynamics of the Beethoven 9th.

Where the refinements need to be made is in the support mechanisms, notably the power supplies. I have seriously contemplated doing a 2400W amp just using chip amps, and blowing the windows out of a listening room or two, just as an "up yours" ...

Frank
Frank, the question is whether "good enough" can be made into say "very good".

I seriously believe a FET buffer could improve the sound, it almost always does (assuming no design booboos). At the very least, it can't hurt.
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Old 15th March 2013, 07:19 AM   #8644
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I suspect in ten years' time, "power chips" will mean Class D, and current power chips will go the way of the wallwart containing a 50/60Hz transformer.
A very likely possibility, I agree.
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Old 15th March 2013, 08:55 AM   #8645
fas42 is online now fas42  Australia
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Frank, the question is whether "good enough" can be made into say "very good".

I seriously believe a FET buffer could improve the sound, it almost always does (assuming no design booboos). At the very least, it can't hurt.
Well, everyone knows the difference between "good enough" and "very good" -- I distinctly remember laboratory instruments with these markings around the scale ...

Trouble is, the ear is a strange animal - hard to know what to feed it at times! However, I reckon I've got a pretty good handle on it ... if an amp, which in my book is an alias for a complete system, allows one to put on one's "worst" recordings, the speakers stay "invisible", I can wind it up to the point just before the voltage rails clip, and then drop to an almost inaudible whisper without apparent change in tonality, and the sound remains "natural" at all times, then I would say it's "good enough". Extra would simple stuff like being capable of clean 125dB peaks vs. 118dBs, then I would up the "goodness" rating ...

Frank

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Old 15th March 2013, 09:17 AM   #8646
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Well, everyone knows the difference between "good enough" and "very good" -- I distinctly remember laboratory instruments with these markings around the scale ...

Trouble is, the ear is a strange animal - hard to know what to feed it at times! However, I reckon I've got a pretty good handle on it ... if an amp, which in my book is an alias for a complete system, allows one to put on one's "worst" recordings, the speakers stay "invisible", I can wind it up to the point just before the voltage rails clip, and then drop to an almost inaudible whisper without apparent change in tonality, and the sound remains "natural" at all times, then I would say it's "good enough". Extra would simple stuff like being capable of clean 125dB peaks vs. 118dBs, then I would up the "goodness" rating ...

Frank
Not to get too deep into semantics, all I am suggesting, based on my admittedly very small experience, is that a discrete FET buffer COULD improve the sound somewhat.

I have to be vague because there are far too many power amp chips I haven't even seen, let alone heard, especially over the last 5 or 6 years.
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Old 15th March 2013, 09:34 AM   #8647
jcx is offline jcx  United States
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hm, 95 dB speakers are on the high side of efficiency - so a 125 dB " very good" system would need 1 kW of amp?

Geddes gets 95 dB sensitivity with his Abbey, uses a 12" waveguide and B&C DE-250 compression driver - which is rated for 120 W "program power capacity"


"a very good system" requires a fire extinguisher at hand, a closet full of spare drivers?

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Old 15th March 2013, 09:55 AM   #8648
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There are always so many variables affecting the sound, in my experience quite a number of them have to do with aspects largely ignored by most. So, using using that FET buffer may make a dramatic difference to a particular circuit, but I would try doing something other to make my significant improvements ...

Realistically, 115-120dB peaks is all one should want; check out pro shops, active monitors for a bit over $500 a pair promise this for near field listening. It just takes a little bit more sensitivity, a little more power to deliver true 125dB peaks.

Personally, I estimate I can get high quality 106dB peaks, and that's good enough for me. Subjectively, it has all the impact that I want; extra is for boasting purposes, and bigger homes ...

Edit: measurements of sound levels within a playing orchestra showed that another musician directly in front of the brass section "suffered" 125dB peaks at the biggest crescendos, the highest measured ...

Frank

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Old 15th March 2013, 10:58 AM   #8649
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I suspect in ten years' time, "power chips" will mean Class D, and current power chips will go the way of the wallwart containing a 50/60Hz transformer.
We should fight to retain class AB chips by buying them when we can . Nothing on this planet is so sensible and so cheap . LAB 47 must agree ?
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Old 15th March 2013, 11:33 AM   #8650
fas42 is online now fas42  Australia
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Originally Posted by nigel pearson View Post
We should fight to retain class AB chips by buying them when we can . Nothing on this planet is so sensible and so cheap . LAB 47 must agree ?
And so would Marshall, a maker of guitar amps some may have heard of ... , I reckon they use them by the truckloads ...

Frank
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