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Old 8th March 2013, 02:38 PM   #8571
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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Nige's new paradigm ...
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Old 8th March 2013, 07:06 PM   #8572
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It sure looks that way.
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Old 8th March 2013, 07:08 PM   #8573
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If transformers are used I can be very complicated . I love them . Some cheap toroid's for mains use are OK as valve output transformers ! The latter VOX AC 30 used something almost like that made by Aval Linburg . 500 H primary inductance . Sort of makes a joke of so called isolation transformers . People misunderstand , physical not noise isolation . I got 1 MHz to pass though them . They that make them even boast high grade lamination's like it would be an advantage !
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Old 10th March 2013, 07:29 PM   #8574
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Personally, I think a transformer at an amp's output is simply introducing another layer of variables.

Isn't it enough that we have to consider all sorts of doomsday scenarios if the amp meets an unfriendly loudspeaker, do we really need to add another layer in between? It may ease the problem, but at the cost of reduced power, plus it will add its own variables into the mix.

Reduced power may not be a big issue when you nominally have 500W/8 Ohms, but with rather more normal amps this could become a serious issue.
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Old 11th March 2013, 09:00 AM   #8575
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Hello

i am confused again
I found this confusing comment from an high regarded audio designer

Quote:
In designing a preamp, there's definitely more dimensions to it than frequency response, distortion, s/n, and sensitivity.
Once you design the framework of the circuitry, the final sonics of the unit is dictated by fine tuning various portions of the circuitry.
This last bit of effort is where the audible differences define the tonal and transient characteristic of the unit.
Specifications tell a good part of the story but it'll only define the framework of your design


but this blessed fine tuning various portions of the circuitry can it really be done by ear ???
I cannot believe this
Can you ?
I am again in a confusional state
Sorry
Kind regards,
gino
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Old 11th March 2013, 09:21 AM   #8576
fas42 is online now fas42  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ginetto61 View Post
but this blessed fine tuning various portions of the circuitry can it really be done by ear ???
I cannot believe this
Can you ?
I am again in a confusional state
Sorry
Kind regards,
gino
Yes, that's true. It's because electronic parts are not "perfect", they don't just encapsulate pure R, C, L, etc. The textbooks are "wrong" in a sense to make it seem so, every part is really "defective" at some level or other, because they are man made objects which are manufactured well enough to meet a set of requirements, that's all. Some are made better than others, some have low level behaviours which "help" a certain sort of sound to come through - they add the "right" distortion perhaps - , and that's what those types of designers are playing with ...

Frank

Last edited by fas42; 11th March 2013 at 09:24 AM.
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Old 11th March 2013, 09:58 AM   #8577
SY is offline SY  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ginetto61 View Post
i am confused again
I found this confusing comment from an high regarded audio designer
It's less confusing if you understand that he's selling a parity product into a niche market.
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Old 11th March 2013, 10:03 AM   #8578
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fas42 View Post
Yes, that's true.
It's because electronic parts are not "perfect", they don't just encapsulate pure R, C, L, etc.
The textbooks are "wrong" in a sense to make it seem so, every part is really "defective" at some level or other, because they are man made objects which are manufactured well enough to meet a set of requirements, that's all. Some are made better than others, some have low level behaviours which "help" a certain sort of sound to come through - they add the "right" distortion perhaps - , and that's what those types of designers are playing with ...
Frank
Hi ! thank you
I do not debate at all the paramount importance of a design fine tuning process
but I have just a simple question
Can "listening tests" really have a role in this "fine tuning" ?
I doubt
I would select parts on the basis of specs and/or measurements as well
Kind regards,
gino
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Old 11th March 2013, 11:29 AM   #8579
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SY View Post
It's less confusing if you understand that he's selling a parity product into a niche market.
Not that simple, I'm afraid. Not saying this is not so, but it's only a part of the whole story.

For example, take three nominally same transistors from three different sources; I'll wager they will both measure AND sound somewhat differently. It won't be anything drastic, no night and day, but there WILL be a difference.

If you can measure it, how can you avoid having them sound just that little bit differently?

Put in series several such small differences and in the end, they could add up to a sound of a different shade.

Yet, all such slightly different devices will most probably fulfill the nominal data sheet, and probably surpass it some. For example, in my book, Motorola/ON Semi is notorious for surpassing the data sheet in voltage terms, at least such is my experience. In the last 30 years, their take on BC 546B/556B, rated at 65 V has NEVER failed to work at 70V. May not be cruicial, but it speaks well of their data sheet adherence.

Some BJTs are rather sensitive to such small differences, e.g. the high voltage BF series. It's anythibng but all the same, trust me, if you want the real deal, make usre it's made by Siemens (or Telefunken, their subsidiary) or Philips.
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Old 11th March 2013, 11:31 AM   #8580
dvv is offline dvv  Serbia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ginetto61 View Post
Hi ! thank you
I do not debate at all the paramount importance of a design fine tuning process
but I have just a simple question
Can "listening tests" really have a role in this "fine tuning" ?
I doubt
I would select parts on the basis of specs and/or measurements as well
Kind regards,
gino
Gino, no matter what anyone says or what the instruments measure, in the end, you are ALWAYS listening to the designer's opinion of what good sound is. Always.

It's the designer who has the final word, ultimately he always tunes it to what he feels it should sound like.
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