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Old 25th February 2013, 01:12 PM   #8481
qusp is offline qusp  Australia
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The nice thing about older analogue systems is that the source and reproduction ends of the system can be independently improved, while maintaining the all-important interface between them. Digital can't do this to the same extent; upgrades usually require a change to the specification so old equipment and recordings become obsolete.
this will begin to be the case again, as HD based systems become dominant, there is no medium to become obsolete
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Old 25th February 2013, 01:27 PM   #8482
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One good thing about HD TV is some master-tapes are coming out of hibernation . Period 1968 to 1972 PAL before U-matic . I was told NTSC mater-tapes to be especially good . The transmitted quality very poor . I saw by accident 813 lines ( ? ) Secam in 1966 , very good . It seems where I stayed must have been a government crony as it was cable only and friends of who got it ( Mairie des Lilas Paris ) . 1968 PAL is neither film nor modern . Stunning and surreal .
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Old 25th February 2013, 04:09 PM   #8483
DF96 is offline DF96  England
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Originally Posted by qusp
there is no medium to become obsolete
There are still file formats and filing systems to become obsolete. NTFS seems fairly stable, but Linux seems to have a new FS every few years.

I suppose what is needed is some audio format which assumes nothing more than an ordered bag of bytes. Everything else is described within the bytes: bit-length, sampling rate, number of channels etc. XML could be a step in this direction.
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Old 25th February 2013, 05:19 PM   #8484
bcarso is offline bcarso  United States
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Originally Posted by DF96 View Post
There are still file formats and filing systems to become obsolete. NTFS seems fairly stable, but Linux seems to have a new FS every few years.

I suppose what is needed is some audio format which assumes nothing more than an ordered bag of bytes. Everything else is described within the bytes: bit-length, sampling rate, number of channels etc. XML could be a step in this direction.
And possibly even some specific encoding of the exact local time? Maybe not for each sample, but once in a while? Just a thought.
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Old 25th February 2013, 06:44 PM   #8485
dvv is offline dvv  Serbia
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Wow, you gents are really developing a new technology here.

Why not just keep it simple and ask yourself the one key question: do I like that sound?

If so, then for all I care it might be made of horse manure, I'll take one, thank you.

I realize that the time and circumstances also play a part - just look at Nige and me enthuse about long gone, never to come back days, in the tradition of Eric Burdon and The Animals:

"When I was young,
It was more important,
Pain more painful,
Laughter much louder ..."

(yeah, I own the collected works in both analog LP and digital CD formats).

What we'd like and what the industry does are two TOTALLY separate things, which NEVER work in our favor.
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Old 25th February 2013, 06:49 PM   #8486
dvv is offline dvv  Serbia
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Also, Nige, you should be aware by now that standards are the dirtiest swearword in almost any industry today.

The Chinese are the first who **** on any standards, as long it does the job. They have no time for such niceties, but, truth be told, their western counterparts are not complaining much (how can they, when they manufacture it all in China?), while governments are notoriously spineless and castrated. All they know how to do well is to raise taxes and the Devil take the rest.
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Old 25th February 2013, 08:24 PM   #8487
bcarso is offline bcarso  United States
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Originally Posted by dvv View Post
Also, Nige, you should be aware by now that standards are the dirtiest swearword in almost any industry today.

The Chinese are the first who **** on any standards, as long it does the job. They have no time for such niceties, but, truth be told, their western counterparts are not complaining much (how can they, when they manufacture it all in China?), while governments are notoriously spineless and castrated. All they know how to do well is to raise taxes and the Devil take the rest.
Getting hazardously close to politics again, but I predict the offshore outsourcing is going to undergo significant upheavals and much manufacturing will come home. It will be a while, but a lot of folks are coming to realize the real cost of what used to be irresistibly cheap labor.
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Old 25th February 2013, 08:57 PM   #8488
fas42 is offline fas42  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DF96 View Post
Can I assume that you have never designed an FM tuner? Much harder than plain audio.

Lots of compomises e.g. IF bandwidth is a 'noise vs. distortion' balance. This is because perfect FM requires an infinite bandwidth for zero distortion, but that would allow in an infinite amount of noise. IF gain and AGC response is a 'local vs. distant' balance: high gain improves distance reception but degrades local reception.

Audio is easy by comparison.
The design of the item in itself is not the point, it's that the simple radio I was speaking of is an all-in-one product, it exists as a fully functional item in its own right.

Again, this is where audio misses the point, and why so often it sounds "wrong". People believe in separate black boxes, and this imediately introduces a whole swag of weaknesses which help to degrade the sound to the normal, "hifi" standard. The trouble is, everyone now is so used to this standard that it's generally accepted to be "as good as it gets" ...

Frank
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Old 25th February 2013, 09:56 PM   #8489
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvv View Post
Also, Nige, you should be aware by now that standards are the dirtiest swearword in almost any industry today.

The Chinese are the first who **** on any standards, as long it does the job. They have no time for such niceties, but, truth be told, their western counterparts are not complaining much (how can they, when they manufacture it all in China?), while governments are notoriously spineless and castrated. All they know how to do well is to raise taxes and the Devil take the rest.
Please refrain from slurs, especially ungrounded ones.
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Old 25th February 2013, 11:16 PM   #8490
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel pearson View Post
. I was sitting in the bath today listening to my $3 radio . It was BBC Radio 4 . .
C'mon Nige spare us some details bud and what no rubber duckie ... .......

Quote:
Originally Posted by dvv View Post
Wow, you gents are really developing a new technology here.

Why not just keep it simple and ask yourself the one key question: do I like that sound?

If so, then for all I care it might be made of horse manure, I'll take one, thank you.

I realize that the time and circumstances also play a part - just look at Nige and me enthuse about long gone, never to come back days, in the tradition of Eric Burdon and The Animals:

"When I was young,
It was more important,
Pain more painful,
Laughter much louder ..."

(yeah, I own the collected works in both analog LP and digital CD formats).

What we'd like and what the industry does are two TOTALLY separate things, which NEVER work in our favor.
Yep, look at the silly notion and waste in making 8 ohm speakers, all that heat and induced distortion, now if everyone had 1 ohm speakers look how simple life would be , no resistor distortion, less bobbin weight, good low -z amps barely needing more than 50 watts/ch think of the efficiency increases across the board ....

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